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Timmzy's ET
- tassuperkart
- Administrator
- Posts: 5578
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
- Location: Southern Tasmania
- Contact:
Thanks mate. Your help and Callums is well appreciated.
Pics:
https://picasaweb.google.com/adamlaws19 ... directlink
These are from Sunday.
More to come. I don't have any action shots on my iphone just boring pit pics. I'm hanging for someone to post track pics to see how bad she handles. As soon as they are uploaded ill post
I'm just going to unload it off trailer now.
Darren.
Pics:
https://picasaweb.google.com/adamlaws19 ... directlink
These are from Sunday.
More to come. I don't have any action shots on my iphone just boring pit pics. I'm hanging for someone to post track pics to see how bad she handles. As soon as they are uploaded ill post
I'm just going to unload it off trailer now.
Darren.
Race it.
Haha Yeah I know. Thanks. $150 engine and box combo did alright......
I cooked the arse off it on saturday aswell - at one point the engine ran a whole lap at 4/5 temp gauge! I've never seen any engine take that...I glided around in 5th to cool it after that. I think if I had stopped it would have let go.... I have some respect for those permaseal head gaskets - it copped it sweet all weekend and didn't let go.
Tim and Em had a great weekend but Timbo wrecked a set of pads with those dunlop slicks. He pulled a 1:44 on Saturday with those dunlop slicks off the mini cup challenge cars. He improved 6 seconds a lap on his best compared to his radials (!) absolutely astounding. Could have gone quicker too, we wound more caster in on the front and he was on track go even faster - but rotors and fluid let him down unfortunately......the extra speed from those slicks wore his already 50% pads quicker than he thought...only got 8 laps in the morning and it was done...he got another set of pads, but damage was done to right hand rotor and fluid from what I seen. He went out again toward the end of the day but couldn't pull it up and spat it off on the sweeper. I think that scared him and called it a day. I was in the same boat -- people were starting to get tired, and were coming off all over the track, so I just did the time board toward the end of the race. I was 100% satisfied and didn't wanna stuff up by overcooking on another run. I was literally done - so was the car. Tyres are stuffed, my brake pads were down, out of fuel and out of energy.
I called it a day when I came back in from my mid afternoon run. First time for being sensible I guess
Darren.
I cooked the arse off it on saturday aswell - at one point the engine ran a whole lap at 4/5 temp gauge! I've never seen any engine take that...I glided around in 5th to cool it after that. I think if I had stopped it would have let go.... I have some respect for those permaseal head gaskets - it copped it sweet all weekend and didn't let go.
Tim and Em had a great weekend but Timbo wrecked a set of pads with those dunlop slicks. He pulled a 1:44 on Saturday with those dunlop slicks off the mini cup challenge cars. He improved 6 seconds a lap on his best compared to his radials (!) absolutely astounding. Could have gone quicker too, we wound more caster in on the front and he was on track go even faster - but rotors and fluid let him down unfortunately......the extra speed from those slicks wore his already 50% pads quicker than he thought...only got 8 laps in the morning and it was done...he got another set of pads, but damage was done to right hand rotor and fluid from what I seen. He went out again toward the end of the day but couldn't pull it up and spat it off on the sweeper. I think that scared him and called it a day. I was in the same boat -- people were starting to get tired, and were coming off all over the track, so I just did the time board toward the end of the race. I was 100% satisfied and didn't wanna stuff up by overcooking on another run. I was literally done - so was the car. Tyres are stuffed, my brake pads were down, out of fuel and out of energy.
I called it a day when I came back in from my mid afternoon run. First time for being sensible I guess
Darren.
Race it.
Phillip Island
Competed last weekend in round 3 of the Group5 circuit race series at phillip island. I haven't driven there since I was 15!! A little too long you might say
Was a very cool day on Sunday in terms of temperature -- but running all 4 dunlop D03G semi's I managed a best time of
Natsoft Dorian best time of 2:05.2538
Link:
http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/resul ... 2.PHIL.S25
I ran a heap of 2:11's and a 2:38 (!) and then slowly bought the time down to 2:06~07's and then in the last session managed the 2:05.
I was in with a bunch of V8 commodores, Integra, couple of mazda's etc. So the competition was pretty good. The V8's were interesting to race against - they were smashing me on the straights - but mid corner speed and exit speed on the ET were amazing. I passed 2 on turn 1 (different lasps) flat out in 4th gear ~190issh km/h As you would know PI is all about corner speed with only the 1 really long straight. So that made it an interesting 3 & 4 sessions.
The standard engine and gearbox held up well considering I had the peeling inside wheels on every corner. The gearbox started breathing heavily and spat out some oil from breather, but you get that....
The front end is misaligned because it knocked the outside shoulders off the front tyres (big$$$$ if I had pushed for another run) so I had to call it a day after the compulsory 5 sessions for championship points. ill need to flip those tyres and also look at some fairly serious camber settings for the next event to avoid that happening again.
In terms of the engine and box - I've decided that I am having too much fun and I'm not going to remove them until I have some sort of issue with them. Ill prepare my other engine ready to install and try to sort out one of these N13 gearsets. But i'm in no hurry at the moment, its too much fun to fuck with!
Darren.
Was a very cool day on Sunday in terms of temperature -- but running all 4 dunlop D03G semi's I managed a best time of
Natsoft Dorian best time of 2:05.2538
Link:
http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/resul ... 2.PHIL.S25
I ran a heap of 2:11's and a 2:38 (!) and then slowly bought the time down to 2:06~07's and then in the last session managed the 2:05.
I was in with a bunch of V8 commodores, Integra, couple of mazda's etc. So the competition was pretty good. The V8's were interesting to race against - they were smashing me on the straights - but mid corner speed and exit speed on the ET were amazing. I passed 2 on turn 1 (different lasps) flat out in 4th gear ~190issh km/h As you would know PI is all about corner speed with only the 1 really long straight. So that made it an interesting 3 & 4 sessions.
The standard engine and gearbox held up well considering I had the peeling inside wheels on every corner. The gearbox started breathing heavily and spat out some oil from breather, but you get that....
The front end is misaligned because it knocked the outside shoulders off the front tyres (big$$$$ if I had pushed for another run) so I had to call it a day after the compulsory 5 sessions for championship points. ill need to flip those tyres and also look at some fairly serious camber settings for the next event to avoid that happening again.
In terms of the engine and box - I've decided that I am having too much fun and I'm not going to remove them until I have some sort of issue with them. Ill prepare my other engine ready to install and try to sort out one of these N13 gearsets. But i'm in no hurry at the moment, its too much fun to fuck with!
Darren.
Race it.
Good stuff dude!
N12 represent!
Damo
N12 represent!
Damo
Do humanity a favor, use your brain and fight the forces of WOO WOO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mrbxhWU5Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mrbxhWU5Y
piocs
Some Pics of the day.
Taken by Narra Photography. This guy was photographing cars at and above 200kmph and he came up great shots. He a lens the diameter of my friggen steering wheel. He did for free!! For the officials and his own satisfaction - I pointed out my appreciation for that. Great guy.
These photo's were taken over the back through the sweeper before Honda corner. The best part of 190kmh in these shots - flat out through that corner is scary. As is the hayshed over the back. This is where the ET just pulled through the corners like a fuckin train.
I had to include the 510. This guy could really drive with a loose setup rear end on his datto. He was pushing REALLY hard. Never even cam eoff the track the whole day. There were actually a bunch of around 6 510's and they all bunched together and raced off all day. It was fantastic to watch.
I am impressed at the level of drivers at this club level motorsport, some people really can steer. Exhibit A Above
Darren.
Taken by Narra Photography. This guy was photographing cars at and above 200kmph and he came up great shots. He a lens the diameter of my friggen steering wheel. He did for free!! For the officials and his own satisfaction - I pointed out my appreciation for that. Great guy.
These photo's were taken over the back through the sweeper before Honda corner. The best part of 190kmh in these shots - flat out through that corner is scary. As is the hayshed over the back. This is where the ET just pulled through the corners like a fuckin train.
I had to include the 510. This guy could really drive with a loose setup rear end on his datto. He was pushing REALLY hard. Never even cam eoff the track the whole day. There were actually a bunch of around 6 510's and they all bunched together and raced off all day. It was fantastic to watch.
I am impressed at the level of drivers at this club level motorsport, some people really can steer. Exhibit A Above
Darren.
Race it.
Whitline camber bolts arrived. Excellent Smithers excellent.
FOund this while trawling for racecars. Look halfway down
http://gripshiftslide.com/2012/05/07/to ... nd-donuts/
Car comes up alright with a wash.....
Darren.
FOund this while trawling for racecars. Look halfway down
http://gripshiftslide.com/2012/05/07/to ... nd-donuts/
Car comes up alright with a wash.....
Darren.
Race it.
Update
A little bit of progress.
After knocking the shoulders of the edge of my dunlops at the last Island sprint:
Installed 1 set of whiteline camber bolts.
Wheels aligned with as much camber as they could wind in, which turned out to be -2.2 LHS and -1.4 RHS, this combined with +0.5 toe on each side should treat those exy dunlops a little better on the track.
Next investment will be a cheap pyrometer to keep an eye on tyre temps, as this is the next thing that'll wreck them.
After that I doodled back over to Stuckey's tyre service where they rotated and rebalanced my dunlops after knocking the shoulders off them. It was then I was informed by an IPRA racing gentlemen by the name of Phil Kirkham that -3.5 to -4.0 neg camber is what FWD should be running at and 1-2 degress of toe OUT. Yes toe out!! I have toe IN - although only small - it should interesting to see how it handles at Sandown this Sunday.
Car is all prepped and ready to do one good lap without understeer
Hopefully it doesn't rain!
Darren.
After knocking the shoulders of the edge of my dunlops at the last Island sprint:
Installed 1 set of whiteline camber bolts.
Wheels aligned with as much camber as they could wind in, which turned out to be -2.2 LHS and -1.4 RHS, this combined with +0.5 toe on each side should treat those exy dunlops a little better on the track.
Next investment will be a cheap pyrometer to keep an eye on tyre temps, as this is the next thing that'll wreck them.
After that I doodled back over to Stuckey's tyre service where they rotated and rebalanced my dunlops after knocking the shoulders off them. It was then I was informed by an IPRA racing gentlemen by the name of Phil Kirkham that -3.5 to -4.0 neg camber is what FWD should be running at and 1-2 degress of toe OUT. Yes toe out!! I have toe IN - although only small - it should interesting to see how it handles at Sandown this Sunday.
Car is all prepped and ready to do one good lap without understeer
Hopefully it doesn't rain!
Darren.
Race it.
- tassuperkart
- Administrator
- Posts: 5578
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
- Location: Southern Tasmania
- Contact:
OK
Toe out!
What happens when you lean a motorcycle over? It changes direction right? Tracks into the direction of the lean no?
So what happens when you lean a wheel over on a car (camber)? Easy, the wheel tracks in the direction of the lean.
So, camber in both front wheels with zero toe and what happens? Easy, each wheel attempts to change direction INWARDS!
And you have added extra toe IN as well?? LMAO!!!!!!
You are using the equivalent of about 5mm toe on each side which, apart from ordinary tyre deformation and "tucking under" during turning along with increasing +ive camber due to bodyroll, just destroys tyres outside edges!
It generates excessive heat and increases rolling resistance many times!!!!!
As you add -ive camber, so you must add toe OUT to keep the effective tracking of the wheels straight ahead.
Now, running a full degree of camber different on each side will result in strange behaviour between left and right corners...not good.
If you need to wind in a shitload of camber then heres how to do it.
First, using a builders measure with a spirit level, touch the very bottom of the wheel rim (bead with the bottom of the rule, level up the measure to vertical and measure off between the edge of the rule and the rim.
You KNOW what the measurements are in degrees now so you can equivalate them out to a mesurement in mm's
next, return the camber bolts to middle travel.
Next grub out the top bolt on the strut bracket that attaches the strut tube to the upright.
Grub it inwards sos the uright leans inwards a couple of mm's and tighten it all back up.
Measure again and adjust the egging out of the bolthole in the strut to get whatever measurement you are after.
Now, carefully braze/weld up the area of the hole no longer used and file/grind to shape.
Voilah! Instant new race -ive camber and adjusters in middle position for finer adjustments!
if you do a little trigonometry, you can work out exactly how much to lean the rim inwards at the top in mm's using this most simple of techniquest to get whatever angle your little heart desires.
Lastly, reset your toe setting as it might change as you lean the uprights inwards a little. Whichever way it goes!
Last time you will need to visit an alignment shop.
Now, do you like me even more now that Ive given you some more old timers racing wisdom and can-do'ness!!!! Baaahahahah! Anytime bro!!!
End of lecture!!!!!!! LOL
Oracle
Toe out!
What happens when you lean a motorcycle over? It changes direction right? Tracks into the direction of the lean no?
So what happens when you lean a wheel over on a car (camber)? Easy, the wheel tracks in the direction of the lean.
So, camber in both front wheels with zero toe and what happens? Easy, each wheel attempts to change direction INWARDS!
And you have added extra toe IN as well?? LMAO!!!!!!
You are using the equivalent of about 5mm toe on each side which, apart from ordinary tyre deformation and "tucking under" during turning along with increasing +ive camber due to bodyroll, just destroys tyres outside edges!
It generates excessive heat and increases rolling resistance many times!!!!!
As you add -ive camber, so you must add toe OUT to keep the effective tracking of the wheels straight ahead.
Now, running a full degree of camber different on each side will result in strange behaviour between left and right corners...not good.
If you need to wind in a shitload of camber then heres how to do it.
First, using a builders measure with a spirit level, touch the very bottom of the wheel rim (bead with the bottom of the rule, level up the measure to vertical and measure off between the edge of the rule and the rim.
You KNOW what the measurements are in degrees now so you can equivalate them out to a mesurement in mm's
next, return the camber bolts to middle travel.
Next grub out the top bolt on the strut bracket that attaches the strut tube to the upright.
Grub it inwards sos the uright leans inwards a couple of mm's and tighten it all back up.
Measure again and adjust the egging out of the bolthole in the strut to get whatever measurement you are after.
Now, carefully braze/weld up the area of the hole no longer used and file/grind to shape.
Voilah! Instant new race -ive camber and adjusters in middle position for finer adjustments!
if you do a little trigonometry, you can work out exactly how much to lean the rim inwards at the top in mm's using this most simple of techniquest to get whatever angle your little heart desires.
Lastly, reset your toe setting as it might change as you lean the uprights inwards a little. Whichever way it goes!
Last time you will need to visit an alignment shop.
Now, do you like me even more now that Ive given you some more old timers racing wisdom and can-do'ness!!!! Baaahahahah! Anytime bro!!!
End of lecture!!!!!!! LOL
Oracle
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
E,
I'm going to have to read that post again, but your arguing that gyroscopic procession changes the wheel position. I get how it could change the wheel loads, but the static setup is there to balance the range of motion that the suspension links can give. So often people will carry too much static camber so that they have the right camber at the critical dynamic point (typically at some critical corner).
This is normally exagerated for Mac Struts because of the positive camber gain effect once the lower arm goes above horizontal (specifically the line between the inner and outer pivots goes high outboard than inboard).
Doesn't dynamic toe changes come to play with bump steer and radius rods...? Ous doesn't have RR isnt bumpsteer the only thing that can drive dynmaic toe change? Actually, thinking about it, if castor is zero then yes, but castor isn't so maybe not.....but it would be small and secondary.....
ummmm, more thinkin required.
C
I'm going to have to read that post again, but your arguing that gyroscopic procession changes the wheel position. I get how it could change the wheel loads, but the static setup is there to balance the range of motion that the suspension links can give. So often people will carry too much static camber so that they have the right camber at the critical dynamic point (typically at some critical corner).
This is normally exagerated for Mac Struts because of the positive camber gain effect once the lower arm goes above horizontal (specifically the line between the inner and outer pivots goes high outboard than inboard).
Doesn't dynamic toe changes come to play with bump steer and radius rods...? Ous doesn't have RR isnt bumpsteer the only thing that can drive dynmaic toe change? Actually, thinking about it, if castor is zero then yes, but castor isn't so maybe not.....but it would be small and secondary.....
ummmm, more thinkin required.
C
- tassuperkart
- Administrator
- Posts: 5578
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
- Location: Southern Tasmania
- Contact:
Nah C ur overanalyzing it, think LESS! Ignore precession! Its not in this frame!Callumgw wrote:E,
I'm going to have to read that post again, but your arguing that gyroscopic procession changes the wheel position. C
Just think of, say a wheelbarrow, wheel it along nice and straight. Now do NOTHING but lean it (camber) the wheelbarrow will turn towards the lean.
Its as simple as that.
I touched on the increased camber to allow for bodyroll already and camber to correct tyre deformation and to maintain full tread contact during hard cornering.
Castor?? In my experience, you can just get away with stock. On my race car, I dont even know what caster it has. If indeed it has any as there is not much self centering of my steering. It just doesnt seem to matter that much! remember how much the front will dive on initial turn-in still braking!!!!!!!
L8r
Oracle
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.