will the n12 NA motor still work as a turbo motor ??

[mystic_20_2000]

ok have an engine for you its a exa turbo engine for you it has a good head on it, it was running when pulled out suits rebuild exacly what your looking for a new set of rings and while your there bearings and your set.

now its my mate that is selling it he owns eyecandy accesories now he said he palletize it for you so you can organise it getting send over there:

now he has said $70 bucks for the engine and at a guess it should only be around 70 bucks shipping.

Now the offer is up to you i just now how hard it is to make a na turbo its not easy as i have half done one my self and gave up half waythough went out bought a et lol there is a lot of head fucks that cum into it near the end

if you decide to then feel free to give us a buz on 0402 527 704

ta matt

$70 for the motor sounds good - $70 for postage doesn't sound right for postage though. my Postcode is 4655 ( hervey bay, QLD ). someone else has made an offer for a block for $250 on the Gold Coast. see what happens.

even if i do end up with a decent motor - i would still be curious as to whether we can get the NA's to turbo as an alternative without a huge deal of problems. what happened that made you stop ??

Clint

[tassuperkart]

I have 2 NA EFI motors on stands in my garage. Im doing the same thing.
10psi in 9:1 compression should be killer!

Itll be a killer allright Mike. Most likely the only thing killed will be a piston.

The E15 has a shithouse combustion chamber shape that will NOT take much compression.
This is precisely why Nissan dropped the compression in the first place when turboing these engines.

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[tassuperkart]

OK
The block and crank are identical in atmo and turbo.
The turbo block is simply drilled for a turbo oil supply and for a turbo oil drainback.
The position for these bits is clear to see.

The heads are different but not enough to worry about.

The turbo rods are close to 3mm shorter which is where the compression ratio drop comes from.

Some of the turbo engines have a water/oil heat exchanger on the back.

Thats about it.

However, if your contemplating converting an NA car to turbo, dont bother.
Unless you have all the bits on hand its just not worth the time and effort.

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[TurboZ.Dude]

However, if your contemplating converting an NA car to turbo, dont bother.
Unless you have all the bits on hand its just not worth the time and effort.

I agree. Personally, I'm in a different situation. In my country E15ET blocks are _very_ hard, almost impossible, to find. So I have to do it the hard way. I would definitely not do this kind of conversion myself either if E15ET engines and E15ET N12s were readily available over here.

[photoglossy]

I have 2 NA EFI motors on stands in my garage. Im doing the same thing.
10psi in 9:1 compression should be killer!

Itll be a killer allright Mike. Most likely the only thing killed will be a piston.

The E15 has a shithouse combustion chamber shape that will NOT take much compression.
This is precisely why Nissan dropped the compression in the first place when turboing these engines.

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Car to tell me whats so bad about the design on the combustion chamber? Its just a dome... how can that be bad?!

[tassuperkart]

Just is M8, I cant really give specifics.
Its actually two different shapes with no squish area to speak of and they are extremely easy to give the death rattles to.

Just get a carb engine and wind in a couple of degrees ignition and the thing will chatter its head off.

On my old atmo engine, the rattling was so bad that I had to pull about 5 degress out of the ignition and it lost quite a bit of pulling power so in the end, i pulled the head and fitted a head shim.
This not only lowers the compression back closer to stock but also gives you back the lost cam advance.

Way it is but if your happy to run frig all boost or/and pour in expensive high octane fuel or run straight methanol every fill then away you go.

However, CR is not the be all and end all of horsepower. Theres no magic bullet.
You might create a little crispness but I doubt it will knock your lights out.

Ive said this many times before. any primary engine setup was not arrived at by pot luck or mistake. It would be the result of thousands of hours of engine testing to get a reasonable balance between performance and reliability.
Nissan lowered the CR in these motors when turboing them for a very good reason.

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[photoglossy]

Just lost a big post..... Ill try to type it all again!

"Nissan lowered the CR in these motors when turboing them for a very good reason. "
Because boost + average 80's fuel spells disaster.

"CR is not the be all and end all of horsepower"
CR is directly related to power... if you could run 100:1 no problem then i bet you would! Its not everything, but it is certainly a huge part.

How is increasing the CR to 9:1 any different to adding 5psi boost. You are still putting the same amount of air proportional to combustion chamber space into the engine.

If anything you could make a more reliable engine. To make the came power output as a stock engine you could lower the boost to 4psi. Less boost means less stress on he engine and more reliability.

This brings me to another point. My T2 turbo produced boost from 1100rpm. So with a 9:1 setup this would be likely to drop to 8-900rpm. You have just created a more drivable engine. In fact, you could even upgrade to a newer, bigger, more efficient turbo to provide your 4psi and furthermore increase reliability while still being completely drivable.

Im not trying to undercut anything you have said Evan. We all respect your knowledge and experience greatly, but who says we cant start doing things a little different!

I fully understand what you are saying. It could be a disaster, the most unreliable E15 one could own, but if it is thought out well, made well, and tuned well, then who's to say it cant be a much better motor than a standard one.

It will be done.
Lessons will be learned, parts will be broken, money will be spent

I think that was most of it...

[tassuperkart]

OK then.
Try it and see

Who says 80's fuel is more or less average than now and equals disaster? Thats a mighty big call to make. Have you actually used 80's fuel, Super in particular...no? Well I have.

I guarantee youll grenade it. Or youll spend your time incessantly chasing the tune.
I also guarantee you wont see the performance increases your thinking about.
In which case id not bother.
You cant polish a turd. Not easily anyway.

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[photoglossy]

But you can paint it with that crappy chrome spray paint haha!

[tassuperkart]

Bloody Kiwis................................Jk's M8
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[Timmzy]

Hasn't fuel decreased in octance rating since the 80's?

I was only young, but i remember mid to late 80's the "base" fuel was super and it was 94-95 RON. 91 was introduced as ULP? 95 is now our premium, and that's if it doesn't have that nasty rubber eating ethanol in it.

Anywho, I would assume that Nissan would setup a 7PSI E15ET powertrain config to run for lets say 300 000 kays? So running more boost and reving it harder is only taking life off that. Using an atmo engine config with less boost I think would be OK.

So if you had an atmo setup, installed the turbo gear/computer/manifolds and ran a little less boost, ran super dooper 98RON fuel, and got a decent tune (with knock gear installed on the engine) I believe it would be OK.

You would want to be careful with it though. You never know it might drive really well

OR......you could just transplant a whole turbo engine into it and have a spare

[photoglossy]

You would however want to run turbo pistons, as the NA and turbo pistons had different rings (i forget what exactly, maybe E remembers?)

[et_rider]

ok have an engine for you its a exa turbo engine for you it has a good head on it, it was running when pulled out suits rebuild exacly what your looking for a new set of rings and while your there bearings and your set.

now its my mate that is selling it he owns eyecandy accesories now he said he palletize it for you so you can organise it getting send over there:

now he has said $70 bucks for the engine and at a guess it should only be around 70 bucks shipping.

Now the offer is up to you i just now how hard it is to make a na turbo its not easy as i have half done one my self and gave up half waythough went out bought a et lol there is a lot of head fucks that cum into it near the end

if you decide to then feel free to give us a buz on 0402 527 704

ta matt

$70 for the motor sounds good - $70 for postage doesn't sound right for postage though. my Postcode is 4655 ( hervey bay, QLD ). someone else has made an offer for a block for $250 on the Gold Coast. see what happens.

even if i do end up with a decent motor - i would still be curious as to whether we can get the NA's to turbo as an alternative without a huge deal of problems. what happened that made you stop ??

Clint

What made me stop......mmmmm quite a lot really for starters i got a beer and sat and looked a money side of things for sarters trying to get parts is harder as you have to remeber what bit is for what like weather it was the turbo head or standered head. the money that it would cost is the same as getting a turbo engine and putting it in and your still going to have the problems that the standered engins are usually older then the turbo engines and are more prone to problems as well as the fact that i wanted have some from of boost so i need turbo pistons the the fact that i got told the rings are different or somthing so i just saved my pennies and bought an actule et pulsar witch felt so much better than a fake one

and the 70$ postiage is from adelaide sa out south so it is a fairly good price lol im not 100% shore on the price of delivery but if you say yes then my mate will sort out the price for ya and let you now b4 you buy it

ta matt

[tassuperkart]

You would however want to run turbo pistons, as the NA and turbo pistons had different rings (i forget what exactly, maybe E remembers?)

AFAIK, rings are the same.
However there is a difference between the Leaded and unleaded pistons with a little extra meat around the top ring land area and a less hemispherical combustion chamber shape.

You can run any piston turbo (leaded or not) as well as atmo pistons so long as you check the piston crown to head/valve clearances.

I believe the atmo and UNleaded pistons appear identical save for valve reliefs cast into the crown on the atmo pistons(almost 3mm lower deck height due to shorter rods in the turbo engine)

Having the plain atmo pistons with valve reliefs would matter bugger all.
The fundamentl piston design is the same.

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