Oil rings or valve stem seals?

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:03 am

I'm having a problem with excessive oil consumption on my E15, about one litre per 1000 km. It blows a cloud of smoke on start up and when I drive it, the exhaust gases stink like it's almost constantly burning oil. Especially accelerations make it stink. When the engine warms up a bit, it doesn't smell half as much... but it does smell. Other drivers stay at least 30 meters behind in urban areas.

All cylinders are slowly coating the plugs with white deposits, and one cylinder seems to be fouling its plug with ~50% black soot and 50% white deposits.

Suggestions?

Post by **tassuperkart** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:07 pm

OK
1 litre/1000k's is right up up there, but its not really excessive in an older engine.

Usually, puff of smoke on initial cold start will indicate leaking valve stem seals and thats where id be looking first.

Its quite an easy job to change them without lifting the head off the car and might just be worth the hassle.

Buggered rings usually present themselves as smoking harder and harder on power.
Glazed bores are another source of fuming and smoking but Im still leaning to stuffed valve guide seals.

A compression test might also reveal ring issues but youd know that now with excessive crankcase breathing if they were really knackered.

Oracle

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Ok, thanks m8!

I'll try that first!

Yeah, I'm quite sure I don't have a lot of blow-by. My old engine did have lots of blow-by but it had run 385000 k's without a rebuild and it was already losing a bit of compression on two cylinders. This one has run 215000 k's.

baz · Post by **baz** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:08 pm

Do a dry & then wet compression test, see what results you get, if nothing to crazy changes in results then do a leak down test, see if air may be escaping out of the intake or exhaust, oil may be seeping through the valve seals into the chamber & burning off causing you to loose oil

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:50 pm

baz wrote:Do a dry & then wet compression test, see what results you get, if nothing to crazy changes in results then do a leak down test, see if air may be escaping out of the intake or exhaust, oil may be seeping through the valve seals into the chamber & burning off causing you to loose oil

Good point Baz, thanks! Air was escaping out of the intake, I've fixed that now and it slightly improved the situation but it's still burning oil, and quite a bit of it.

I'll replace the valve stem seals as Evan adviced me to do and if that doesn't help I'll start doing compression tests.

Post by **tassuperkart** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:13 am

Mmmmm thats an arse.

You have 2 courses of action. You can just ignore it and drive around like normal and check your oil regularly, or you can pull the motor, rebuild it at considerable cost and then drive it around........ and check the oil less regularly....
For mine, and unless the thing is rattling and hopelessly underpowered, Id live with the oil consumption until such time as the engine really begins to clap out which will be in about 5 years time.

oracle

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:13 pm

tassuperkart wrote:Mmmmm thats an arse.

You have 2 courses of action. You can just ignore it and drive around like normal and check your oil regularly, or you can pull the motor, rebuild it at considerable cost and then drive it around........ and check the oil less regularly....
For mine, and unless the thing is rattling and hopelessly underpowered, Id live with the oil consumption until such time as the engine really begins to clap out which will be in about 5 years time.

oracle

I think I'll drive around with it like normal and keep pouring oil into it. It's not rattling badly (actually it's pretty silent!) and it pulls strong (not that the E15S is strong, but...). Not even top speed is affected! No noticeable power losses whatsoever!

I'd rather put my money on (constructing and) rebuilding the E15ET than starting to rebuild the E15S...

Post by **tassuperkart** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:04 pm

Yup
Ur onto it!!

Oracle

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:32 pm

Well, now it's done! I replaced the valve stem seals!

The old valve stem seals were hard as solid rock and they were leaking, a lot! Photos coming soon to my members rides thread. I haven't seen a single bit of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust after I replaced the seals, except of course for the first start and the first few hundred meters of the test drive. I couldn't avoid having a bit of oil run down the valve stems during the installation of the new stem seals. After a few hundred meters the smoke was gone, permanently. Giving it a bit of revs at idle after the test drive wouldn't even make a puff of blue!

I still have to readjust all the valve clearances because now a couple of rocker arms are actually tapping a bit. But the engine is now running very smoothly, it made an awesome difference! I believe this actually did solve my oil consumption issue!

Thanks for your input, guys!

Post by **tassuperkart** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:14 pm

We are good....very VERY good arent we!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahahah H5!!

Oracle

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:15 am

Yup!

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:58 am

Alright, I believe I have stuffed piston rings on cylinder #3... the spark plug is covered in oil after a cold start... but after driving around for a while it cleans up and looks as good as any of the other plugs... completely normal amounts of soot deposits etc... nothing dramatic at all!

I guess the oil rings must be sloppy on cylinder #3, and I also hear a knocking sound at idle for a while until the engine warms up which may or may not be piston slap.

How long is it safe to run around like this? There are no performance issues or extra noises from the engine once it has warmed up, thus far...

Post by **tassuperkart** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:56 pm

Id say your on the money here.
Itll run like that for many years and id not be too concerned unless it starts fouling sparkplugs.

Drive on!!!

Oracle

TurboZ.Dude · Post by **TurboZ.Dude** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:24 pm

Ok, thanks m8! It hasn't fouled any plugs yet, rather the opposite now that the valve stem seals are replaced.

Acceleration has improved too, especially at high speeds. I was cruising on the freeway at 135 km/h the other day, I downshifted to fourth gear and floored it. I hit 160 (speedo needle at 165) in no time (no time = felt quick for a N/A E15) and it was screaming for fifth gear... decided not to try my luck with the cops so I laid off. (If they would have seen me I would have lost my license for at least half a year for speeding 40 km/h past the speed limit)

Before I replaced the valve stem seals it would reach 155 in 4th and it did take considerable time too!

albert.rich01 · Post by **albert.rich01** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:41 pm

Valve stem seals play a critical role in controlling valve lubrication as well as oil consumption. If the seals do not fit properly or are not installed correctly, the guides may be either starved for lubrication or flooded with oil. Either way, the engine is going to have problems - and you're going to have an unhappy customer and perhaps a warranty claim.