E5 and E10 fuels are coming... engine adjustments needed?

[TurboZ.Dude]

Hey guys.

I found out that the E10 and E5 fuels are coming to my country by year 2011, they will replace both 95E (E10) and 98E (E5) so I am soon forced to run my N12 on a small percentage of alcohol. I was wondering; what kind of adjustments and/or modifications will be necessary?

I'm guessing that on the N/A the ignition needs to be advanced further, and the mixture may have to be set a bit richer... am I right?

And what should be done to the E15ET engine to cope with the new fuels?

Jan

[tassuperkart]

NOTHING.
No adjustments...nothing.
Fillerup and go.
L8r
E

[BADET-4]

Alcohol? Man you guys are lucky! Over here we only get ethanol....

[Timmzy]

You can get pure alcohol here if you really want to through racing outlets - but it doesn't agree with rubber seals, diaphrams etc. and is not readily available at the retail fuel pumps.

Evan - are you saying that you can go ahead and use E5 and E10 without it affecting rubber seals and O rings over time in our N12's? Cos that is not my understanding. My understanding is that it is OK initially, or if used infrequently but it will eat away rubber and some plastic fuel tanks.

And its my understanding that if you use E85 straight up, you need to go right through the fuel system and ensure you have the correct grade rubber components in it -- which I am lead to believe that most new cars do...............

Check out this:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-a ... patibility

darren.

[tassuperkart]

OK first, the E fuels are cut with Ethyl Alcohol, AKA Ethanol or common rubbing alcohol.
NOT Methyl Alcohol. AKA methanol, wood alcohol and a few others.

Methanol is fairly corrosive to aluminium parts and if left in fuel systems for extended periods will corrode ally away. Some fuel lines are known to crack and rot with Metho.
It does have some useful properties as a race fuel tho.

Wiki it up if you want to know more.

Now, fuels cut with Ethanol are only cut in small percentages. E10 = 10% Ethanol and so-on
Altho the effective fuel mixture is leaned out by the addition of alcohol, (because alky contains fewer BTU's per unit of fuel, actually about half of petrol) the knock rating is raised considerably, as alky has a very high knock number (Octane) so the engine will carry the leaner mixtures without detonating.

Furthermore, fuel lines and plastics are tolerant of low percentages of Alky.

E85 is another matter. As the name suggests, its petrol cut with 85% Alky. Or more likely pure Alcohol cut with 25% petrol!
AFAIK, only cars SPECIFICALLY set up for E85 are ready to go out of the box. They cant run on straight petrol anyway.

Because its alky and NOT metho, the fuel system component corrosion is not a factor so the efi cars dont need funky methanol tolerant injectors on E85, but there may be incompatabilities with things like old plastic carb floats and possibly old, already hardened fuel lines.

It would be always best to replace every section of old fuel line in favour of modern alky tolerant stuff if contemplating e85 including things like the injector hosetail sections which are subject to some pretty harsh conditions as a matter of course.

I run E10 regularly in my ute. It likes it.

L8r
E

[TurboZ.Dude]

NOTHING.
No adjustments...nothing.
Fillerup and go.
L8r
E

Thanks man! Are you absolutely sure about that?

Evan - are you saying that you can go ahead and use E5 and E10 without it affecting rubber seals and O rings over time in our N12's? Cos that is not my understanding. My understanding is that it is OK initially, or if used infrequently but it will eat away rubber and some plastic fuel tanks.

Yeah, this is why I asked your opinions in the first place.

Alcohol? Man you guys are lucky! Over here we only get ethanol....

Ah lol. Sorry, I used the wrong word. It's supposed to be biologically produced ethanol.

Check out this:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-a ... patibility

darren.

I read the "REASONS WHY ETHANOL BLENDED PETROL IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN SOME OLDER VEHICLES->carburettor" section on http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can- ... nd-petrol- this page... That's just great! I'm forced to use a fuel which is not recommended for my car. Both E5 or E10 will do some harm to the carb fuel system. In my country, they will stop selling any gasoline which doesn't have a mix of ethanol... sigh.

And the fuel injected engines section just below the carb section doesn't have a positive tone either. Seems that there is a shitload of things to do and it's not going to be easy on our N12's.

[Andjeti]

E5 and E10 will be just fine, I ran them in all my cars except my ET (which I run Premium in)

Only one issue with what Tas wrote, and that is more his maths skill rather than the content of his post.

E85 is another matter. As the name suggests, its petrol cut with 85% Alky. Or more likely pure Alcohol cut with 25% petrol!

85% + 25% = 110%
It would be alcohol cut with 15% Petrol. But I'm just nit-picking.

Jay

[tassuperkart]

Nitpicking perhaps, but my bad certainly...wasnt thinking at all there......! Duh!
L8r
E

[TurboZ.Dude]

E5 and E10 will be just fine, I ran them in all my cars except my ET (which I run Premium in)

Thanks Jay! I hope the E15ET engine won't get any trouble either... I'll replace all fuel hoses of course, but I hope the ECU can cope with the added ethanol.

[tassuperkart]

It wont know the difference so it cant cope with any changes!!!!!!!!
I run e10 regularly in all my cars.
L8r
E

[TurboZ.Dude]

I'll take your word for it. Thanks m8! One less thing to worry about.

Seems that authorities are once again exaggerating all side effects of the new E5 and E10 fuels to cover their behind. The same situation happened when leaded fuel was discontinued in Europe. They were trying to make everybody buy valve seat recession protection stuff (at least in my country) to diminish the risk of anybody blowing up their engine and blaming the new fuel.

Jan

[tassuperkart]

Authorities have to take the high road M8. otherwise it leaves them open to litigation "if" something goes wrong.
L8r
E

[TurboZ.Dude]

Exactly what I said. But the law is the actual problem here, authorities shouldn't need to cover their asses all the time because that makes them look like asses.

Well, enough about that. Don't want to turn this into a ranting thread. I won't comment this further. You can close this thread if necessary.

Once more; thanks for the input guys, much appreciated!