N12 Turbo Forums

May I ask the question is it worth all the trouble of external cooling the oil??

Has been demostrated by a few quick (top 10) e15's that no oil cooler at all does the job. Just seems overkill to me?

ET sounds nice though.

Dave

N12Turbo wrote:May I ask the question is it worth all the trouble of external cooling the oil??

Has been demostrated by a few quick (top 10) e15's that no oil cooler at all does the job. Just seems overkill to me?

ET sounds nice though.

Dave

The E15T has a oil cooler from factory, its actually a watercooled version.
You must not forget the factory oil cooler is a small unit which was designed to cope which the factory spec engine (no mods).

Dave (N12turbo) didnt mean that they didnt come with an oil cooler, im sure he wuld be familiar with its specs... he must have meant that they just removed the whole thing?? I know a lot of people block the coolant hoses running from it, effectively removing it.

wassup393 wrote:Dave (N12turbo) didnt mean that they didnt come with an oil cooler, im sure he wuld be familiar with its specs... he must have meant that they just removed the whole thing?? I know a lot of people block the coolant hoses running from it, effectively removing it.

For what reason????????? Can you give me one good reason as to why someone would want to do such a thing.

ETT wrote:

wassup393 wrote:Dave (N12turbo) didnt mean that they didnt come with an oil cooler, im sure he wuld be familiar with its specs... he must have meant that they just removed the whole thing?? I know a lot of people block the coolant hoses running from it, effectively removing it.

For what reason????????? Can you give me one good reason as to why someone would want to do such a thing.

Yes as mentioned above, I know all to well what the E15ET engine has on it. I stated that alot of top10 E15's have removed the oil cooler totally (mine included). These cars are far from factory spec and run perfectly fine without, hence why I asked the question is all this external stuff worth it??? Especially when you state you don't even have the room at the front for a 18row oil cooler... How cold do you want your oil????

Dave

Installed an oil temp guage in my old Exa about 5 weeks before I sold the car. I also removed the std oil cooler about 2 weeks before it went (because there was a leak & I thought it was from there) and it made absolutely zero difference to the oil temp. And of course being as how I'd decided to sell it I was giving it a hard time when I drove it......

hmm interesting, my mate has a gtir and her oil temp seems to go up a bit after a bit of a thrash, ill get one one day and find out myself!

Just to clarify - where I said

The Renegade wrote:and it made absolutely zero difference to the oil temp. And of course being as how I'd decided to sell it I was giving it a hard time when I drove it......

the oil temp went up when the car was driven hard, but the max temp was no different without the oil cooler.

Dave if i can lower the oil temps by even a very minimal degree than as far as im concerned it was well worth it, as for how cold do you want your oil question : i dont want it COLD i want it cooler than what the standard temp would be as the increased load on the engine is sure to make an impact on oil temps wether it be 10 degree's or 1 degree.
People can make logic to removing the oil cooler but cant seem to make logic on using one
As for using the MT4 rather than using a fuel and ignition ecu: thats a choice ive made and i have my own logical reasons for making that choice.
Hope that shed's some light on all the questions.

I didn't really have any logic behind removing apart from it was leaking a little and Mr Rego dude said I had to fix the leak.
But I didn't see the point in putting another on, be it std or aftermarket when taking it off didn't make the oil get any hotter.
Spose if I had a full house engine I'd prolly need one though....

I read a lot about the effectiveness (or lack of effectiveness) of the ET water to oil cooler and some surprisingly thoughtless comments ranged upon them in the past. Frankly, I find most of it laughably ill informed.

Yas have gots to remember that the standard oil "cooler" CANNOT do any cooling to the oil unless the oil temperature actually EXCEEDS water temperature K.
Think about it right, oil is passing thru a core HEATED with engine coolant.
Its quite simple. Unless the oil temp exceeds water temp, the oil is actually HEATED!

This is why the collective brains trusts find little , if any different to oil temps with the removal of them, if anything, they may show slightly LOWER oil temps and so the misguided conclusion they they are useless.

If fact, you are removing a very useful method of actually HEATING the oil to correct operating temps as the cooling water will always heat up much faster than oil temps.
This very feature alone is sufficient reason to leave the stock heat exchanger in place, or put it back into service iffen it has been removed.

Furthermore, never be fooled by the apparent lack of size of a water to oil heat exchanger.
The reason air to oil coolers are so large is the very fact they they are SO INEFFICIENT compared to water/oil heat exchangers.
However on the flip side, they do add to the oil system capacity which is a good thing.
If air cooling was so wonderful, you would just pump air around your cooling system with a fan wouldnt you!
VW have been doing this for decades and require huge increases in surface area (cooling fins) to achieve even acceptable cooling of a dinky 40 horsepower engine!
There is almost an entire industry dedicated to adding oil, capacity, filtering and cooling ability to krauts!!

Witness the size of the correct heat exchanger required to cool, say a 200 HP marine diesel engine then. Its about 300mm long and about 75mm in diameter. It has to cool this with the engine producing this horsepower for many hours on end in a stuffy and hot engine compartment. Not just the odd blast down a drag strip or occasional long idles in traffic on a hot day.

What happens with the addition of a rediculously large air/oil cooler is that the oil actually has trouble heating up enough.
You can certainly run oil too cool same as you can run your engine water temp too cool.

Yous need to understand that oils are designed to run at or around 100 deg. C and all their technical and operating specifications are set at this temp. Why run them colder than what they are DESIGNED to operate at?
Oils are quite a science and those guys are not idiots and didnt pick this temp outta their arse but apparently, many so-called engine "experts" seem to believe they know more than lubrication scientists!

Running oil excessively cold results in significantly higher wear rates on moving surfaces and far greater oil dilution and worse, contamination due to insufficient heat being able to evaporate and remove water and other volatile contaminants that, along with combustion gasses produce extremely harmful and highly corrosive acids that wreak more havoc upon an engine than any amount of sustained high revving or hot low down lugging/idling you can throw at it.

If you insist on fitting an oil cooler capable of being used as a radiator in an emergency, you should ALWAYS fit an oil temperature thermostat which will bypass the cooler and promote faster warmups and reduced engine wear and so-on.
I use them religiously on my race engines to promote the fsatest warmups possible, especially down here in the high latitudes!

The ET's come with an excellent little oil/water heat exchanger that does a lot more positive things than its small size and bastard location would possibly indicate.
Nissan were not idiots when they fitted them at R & D stage.

Im tired now and need a good lie down.

L8tr
E

tassuperkart wrote:
The ET's come with an excellent little oil/water heat exchanger that does a lot more positive things than its small size and bastard location would possibly indicate.
Nissan were not idiots when they fitted them at R & D stage.

L8tr
E

Except for the countless leaks they tend to develope an odd 20 years after manufacture. Combine that with the abovementioned bastard location, and that is enough for me to remove something that was proven to be arguably obsolete.

But hey, if the air cooler is purchased, or the std cooler is not leaking/causing headaches, then sh1t i'm all for the things aswell.

Dave

Yeah, what E said!!!
I knew ther ewas something about running oil at the right temp, but I didn't have the knowledge to back up my argument.
I can see what you're saying too Evan about warm ups, coz it'd be a damn site colder down there.
I guess I'm pretty lucky up here, we don't really do cold all that much!

Maybe there should be a write up in the Articles section about the importance of running your oil at the right temps.... *cough*hint*cough*nudge*

to add to Evans comments the misconception stems from people calling the device by the wrong name. it is NOT AND OIL COOLER..

it is a Water to Oil Intercooler... and is thus stated in the 'nissan turbo suplimental' document.. it is designed to manage the heating of the oil to the correct operating temperature by using the water that will soak up heap much more effectively than oil (hence why we dont use oil as a coolant.. we use a radiator and water instead).

personally, unless your racing your car, its important to keep this device.

tassuperkart wrote:
The ET's come with an excellent little oil/water heat exchanger that does a lot more positive things than its small size and bastard location would possibly indicate.
Nissan were not idiots when they fitted them at R & D stage.

Im tired now and need a good lie down.

L8tr
E

You just can't do without in below zero(celscis) conditions!

would need some sleep too, but off to work i go........