CA18DET Question

DillonP · Post by **DillonP** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:23 pm

I'm listening ...

Android 360 · Post by **Android 360** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:46 am

yeh for the front dont use n13 pulsar brakes, n13 exa brakes should be the same size too... way bigger than n12 but go bigger again to n14 pulsar sss, nx-r or gti-r rotors and calipers
if you tell the engineer that the brakes are from a 2.0L car then they will look upon it more favourably that ca18de or 18le brakes on a ca18det car...

not sure bout the rears m8,
nissan is normally pretty good with interchangable parts but if the stub axle is diff then it may be a lil harder than taking off your old brakes and bolting on new ones.

i havent played around with n12 rear brakes before, only front.
that will change soon though as i need to put my set of et disks on the back of mine replacing drums.

DillonP · Post by **DillonP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:48 am

Bare with me.
So is the Holden/GM 1.8L gearbox the same as the CA18DE Exa gbox ?
Just thinking as far as availability goes, if you were going to put a phantom grip or similar in anyway, easier and cheaper to source the GM 1.8 gbox than the Nissan VSLD box ?

The brake issue / stub axle has me thinking, we might be able to grab the whole uprights, stub axle and brakes from an N14 ? thereby opening up the availability of heaps of aftermarket coilovers and brakes ? (if you were going to need custom shafts from the CA18DE gbox to the new hubs anyway)

But then it brings us back to the old CA vs SR question.
If you were going to have to do a lot of work for the CA18, why not a later model SR20 ?
I need to see them and measure them, maybe the SR is bulky ?
I wonder if the weight difference was much ? shouldnt be ....

samwdg · Post by **samwdg** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:40 am

Android 360 wrote:yeh for the front dont use n13 pulsar brakes, n13 exa brakes should be the same size too... way bigger than n12 but go bigger again to n14 pulsar sss, nx-r or gti-r rotors and calipers
if you tell the engineer that the brakes are from a 2.0L car then they will look upon it more favourably that ca18de or 18le brakes on a ca18det car...

not sure bout the rears m8,
nissan is normally pretty good with interchangable parts but if the stub axle is diff then it may be a lil harder than taking off your old brakes and bolting on new ones.

i havent played around with n12 rear brakes before, only front.
that will change soon though as i need to put my set of et disks on the back of mine replacing drums.

Yeh with the front i was thinking bout getting n14 rotors and calipers cause there the same size as the exa ones and probably the cheapest to get from the wreckers, but yeh with the bottom ball joint, the taper is differnt and i dont think the n13 control arm will bolt onto the n12, so il need to find out more bout that.

With the back brakes, i had a look at a guide of where a guy put the ET setup on the exa drums and i could do the same with the van drums, except i dont need the rear control arms and im not sure if the spline is the same length or not, so if someone could measure the spline for me, would be a big help?

DillonP wrote:Bare with me.
So is the Holden/GM 1.8L gearbox the same as the CA18DE Exa gbox ?
Just thinking as far as availability goes, if you were going to put a phantom grip or similar in anyway, easier and cheaper to source the GM 1.8 gbox than the Nissan VSLD box ?

The brake issue / stub axle has me thinking, we might be able to grab the whole uprights, stub axle and brakes from an N14 ? thereby opening up the availability of heaps of aftermarket coilovers and brakes ? (if you were going to need custom shafts from the CA18DE gbox to the new hubs anyway)

Far as i know the holden gearbox and the exa box are different; exa is hydro clutch, holden box is weak and runs cable clutch.

The VLSD is stronger, better and is still cable clutch, and you should be able to use normal n13 shafts if you got the n13 hubs. But you still got the ball joint taper prob which i still havnt work out. Need the guy with Glenns old beast to get some pics for us!

Post by **The Renegade** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:55 am

Sam n Joel - My green machine had N13 brakes (possibly GTiR) and stock drums on the back. The engineers report said he was happy enough with the front upgrade that the backs could remain untouched in such a lightweight car.

Dillon - do a little research on the VLSD boxes. Mine was N13 Exa, but the N13 Pulsar Reebok came with a VLSD centre and there was another model too, the name escapes me though.

Android 360 · Post by **Android 360** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:28 am

DillonP wrote:Bare with me.
So is the Holden/GM 1.8L gearbox the same as the CA18DE Exa gbox ?
Just thinking as far as availability goes, if you were going to put a phantom grip or similar in anyway, easier and cheaper to source the GM 1.8 gbox than the Nissan VSLD box ?

the 18LE comes with either a normal open diff box or a VLSD box.
the VLSD box is the same one used on the CA16DE engines in the japanese exas. The CA16DE gearbox fits the CA18DE(T) and because the 18LE VLSD box is the same as the CA16DE box, then it too will fit the CA18DET

DillonP wrote:The brake issue / stub axle has me thinking, we might be able to grab the whole uprights, stub axle and brakes from an N14 ? thereby opening up the availability of heaps of aftermarket coilovers and brakes ? (if you were going to need custom shafts from the CA18DE gbox to the new hubs anyway)

i assume you are referring to the front.
the n14 hubs use a different spline, n13 hubs must be used unless you get custom driveshafts made up which has no point as n14 rotors and calipers fit n13 hubs.
you can use the n12 cms coilovers or you could also go get gti-r coilovers and modify either the strut cap or your strut towers to suit.

DillonP wrote:But then it brings us back to the old CA vs SR question.
If you were going to have to do a lot of work for the CA18, why not a later model SR20 ?
I need to see them and measure them, maybe the SR is bulky ?
I wonder if the weight difference was much ? shouldnt be ....

engineering an engine that is half a litre larger than the factory engine is a lot harder to do than one that is 300cc. ask mr.exa, he's got an sr20det, its been in the car for years and as far as i know he still cant get it engineered.
most people also fint the CA engines easier to work on.. i know i do.. so its good from a DIY standpoint too.

samwdg wrote:Yeh with the front i was thinking bout getting n14 rotors and calipers cause there the same size as the exa ones and probably the cheapest to get from the wreckers, but yeh with the bottom ball joint, the taper is differnt and i dont think the n13 control arm will bolt onto the n12, so il need to find out more bout that.

With the back brakes, i had a look at a guide of where a guy put the ET setup on the exa drums and i could do the same with the van drums, except i dont need the rear control arms and im not sure if the spline is the same length or not, so if someone could measure the spline for me, would be a big help?

get rotors and calipers off a fwd car with an sr20de or det and a model code of b13 or n14 and you'll b right

as for the mounting point, i'll have a look at my hubs and see what they look like.
would be good to get pics off the mean green machine tho..
ive never seen a vans rear brakes close up so im not much help with those sorry!

The Renegade wrote:Sam n Joel - My green machine had N13 brakes (possibly GTiR) and stock drums on the back. The engineers report said he was happy enough with the front upgrade that the backs could remain untouched in such a lightweight car.

thats good news, but why wouldnt you want rear disks? lol

Callumgw · Post by **Callumgw** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:08 pm

if the SR is too bulky you could always do the light weight toyota 140kw 1.8lt NA VVTi 2ZZ-GE from the last celica - with 6 speed gearbox.... or the flappy padel gearbox from the MR2 spyder

since your doing all the engineering anyway....

C

samwdg · Post by **samwdg** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:10 pm

Android 360 wrote:
DillonP wrote:Bare with me.
So is the Holden/GM 1.8L gearbox the same as the CA18DE Exa gbox ?
Just thinking as far as availability goes, if you were going to put a phantom grip or similar in anyway, easier and cheaper to source the GM 1.8 gbox than the Nissan VSLD box ?
the 18LE comes with either a normal open diff box or a VLSD box.
the VLSD box is the same one used on the CA16DE engines in the japanese exas. The CA16DE gearbox fits the CA18DE(T) and because the 18LE VLSD box is the same as the CA16DE box, then it too will fit the CA18DET

DillonP wrote:The brake issue / stub axle has me thinking, we might be able to grab the whole uprights, stub axle and brakes from an N14 ? thereby opening up the availability of heaps of aftermarket coilovers and brakes ? (if you were going to need custom shafts from the CA18DE gbox to the new hubs anyway)
i assume you are referring to the front.
the n14 hubs use a different spline, n13 hubs must be used unless you get custom driveshafts made up which has no point as n14 rotors and calipers fit n13 hubs.
you can use the n12 cms coilovers or you could also go get gti-r coilovers and modify either the strut cap or your strut towers to suit.

DillonP wrote:But then it brings us back to the old CA vs SR question.
If you were going to have to do a lot of work for the CA18, why not a later model SR20 ?
I need to see them and measure them, maybe the SR is bulky ?
I wonder if the weight difference was much ? shouldnt be ....
engineering an engine that is half a litre larger than the factory engine is a lot harder to do than one that is 300cc. ask mr.exa, he's got an sr20det, its been in the car for years and as far as i know he still cant get it engineered.
most people also fint the CA engines easier to work on.. i know i do.. so its good from a DIY standpoint too.

samwdg wrote:Yeh with the front i was thinking bout getting n14 rotors and calipers cause there the same size as the exa ones and probably the cheapest to get from the wreckers, but yeh with the bottom ball joint, the taper is differnt and i dont think the n13 control arm will bolt onto the n12, so il need to find out more bout that.

With the back brakes, i had a look at a guide of where a guy put the ET setup on the exa drums and i could do the same with the van drums, except i dont need the rear control arms and im not sure if the spline is the same length or not, so if someone could measure the spline for me, would be a big help?
get rotors and calipers off a fwd car with an sr20de or det and a model code of b13 or n14 and you'll b right
as for the mounting point, i'll have a look at my hubs and see what they look like.
would be good to get pics off the mean green machine tho..
ive never seen a vans rear brakes close up so im not much help with those sorry!

The Renegade wrote:Sam n Joel - My green machine had N13 brakes (possibly GTiR) and stock drums on the back. The engineers report said he was happy enough with the front upgrade that the backs could remain untouched in such a lightweight car.
thats good news, but why wouldnt you want rear disks? lol

Im gunna go check out the back brakes setup on my dads van, since il have it up on the car ramp, so il get some pics.

DillonP · Post by **DillonP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:15 pm

Android, I had a read of your ride topic but saw no info or pics on your CA18 build up, is this currently happening or are you exploring options like me ?

DillonP · Post by **DillonP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:24 pm

Extra useful info from ...
http://forum.pulsar.org.au/archive/inde ... -3227.html

lMitAtiON9th October 2007, 07:41 PM
Ive posted this about 500 times but here it is again.

Ok here is is a list of parts, prices and hours involved in putting a CA18DET into your N13.

Everything needed to be done and hours to do it

Remove Engine & Gearbox : 4.2
Remove Wiring Loom : 1
R&R Engine Mounts : 1
Inspect Timing Belt On Engine : 0.75
Supply & Fit Accessory Belts : 1
Remove Sump & Crossmember : 1.2
Modify Sump & Re-install : 3
Modify Wiring Loom : 8
Remove Flexplate, Replace, Install Clutch, Bolt Gearbox Back To Engine : 2.2
Install Engine : 7.9
Wire-Up Engine : 3
Fabricate Inlet Plumbing : 1
Supply & Fit Radiator, Heater, Throttle Body Bypass & Power Steering Hoses : 1.5
Replace Fluids : 1
R&R CV Joint (Both Sides) : 1
Re-Boot CV Joint (Both Sides) : 3
Degrease Engine Bay : 1.5
Wire-Up Thermo Fan : 0.5
R&R Tie-Rod Ends : 0.5
Supply & Fit Mount Bracket : 0.5

TOTAL HOURS : 43.75

PARTS

U12 Intercooled CA18DET $1295
Cltuch $330
S13 Loom $150
S13 ECU $100
S13 Coil Ignitor $40
S13 Ballast Resitor $50
KN13 Exa Drivers side Mounting Brackets $35
Cam Belt $40
Full 3" Exhaust from turbo back, mild steel, higflow cat/muffler $690
KN13 Exa CA18DE Flywheel $65
Polyurithane Engine Mounts $160

Autometer Ultralite Boost Gauge $130
Autometer Ultralite Water Temp Gauge $130
GFB Hybrid Blow Off Valve $250
Machine Flywheel $30
CV Joints Outer and Inner $30
Tie-Rod Ends Left and Right $70
N14 SSS Brakes $80
Trans Fluid $10
Radiator Fluid $15
Pod Filter $40
Intercooler pipes $200
Frount Mount intercooler 600x300x76 $320
16" Davies Craig Thermo Fan $150

Degreaser $9.95
Electrical Tape $11.80
Solder (Roll) $6.95
Heat Shrink $11.95
Wiring Terminals $5.00
Relay $9.90
Top Radiator Hose $9.95
Bottom Hose $9.95
Heater Hose $19.90
F&R Engine Mount $29.90
Mount Bracket $33.00
Link Bushes $9.95
Crimp PS Hose $50.00
Oil Filter $8.95
Mobil 1 Oil (+.5 Litres To Clean Sump After Degreasing & Welding) $39.80
Trans Fluid $13.90
Power Steering Fluid $9.95
Sump Return Line Fitting $10.00
Sump Oil Seal Rear (OE# 11121OC410) $10.00
Sump Gasket Maker (OE# KP71000150) $30.00

TOTAL COST : $4747.80

This is EVERYTHING i needed to get done, all the hoses i got cheeeeep,
so expect to pay more. Most of the parts i got from NissanSilvia.com very cheap,
so look around before you buy everything at a wreckers.
Half of the stuff there i did not even consider when i budgeted.
So if you plan on doing this, have lots of money saved otherwise you go into debt

Android 360 · Post by **Android 360** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:03 pm

ive researched it alot and im currently gathering parts required

i bought a conversion kit off khalid who had a ca18det in his n12 which he parted out.
i'm getting a motor soon, then i'll be rebuilding it before i install

just gonna run it in standard form as its already over 3 times my current power! (54hp)

DillonP · Post by **DillonP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:11 pm

yours is currently an NA E15 ?

Post by **The Renegade** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:16 pm

Hey Joel, I wouldn't have bothered with rear disks because:
The drums stop just as good, just require regular maintennance.
Big pain in the ass to put the disks on the back with the lines & booster (or modified proportioning vlave like Callum was investigating) And sure you can just put 'em on with the front-disk-only booster, but don't forget the car will be getting scrutineered pretty intensely. And really, if you dont do it properly, then why bother doing it at all.

samwdg · Post by **samwdg** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:09 pm

DillonP wrote:Extra useful info from ...
http://forum.pulsar.org.au/archive/inde ... -3227.html

lMitAtiON9th October 2007, 07:41 PM
Ive posted this about 500 times but here it is again.

Ok here is is a list of parts, prices and hours involved in putting a CA18DET into your N13.

Everything needed to be done and hours to do it

Remove Engine & Gearbox : 4.2
Remove Wiring Loom : 1
R&R Engine Mounts : 1
Inspect Timing Belt On Engine : 0.75
Supply & Fit Accessory Belts : 1
Remove Sump & Crossmember : 1.2
Modify Sump & Re-install : 3
Modify Wiring Loom : 8
Remove Flexplate, Replace, Install Clutch, Bolt Gearbox Back To Engine : 2.2
Install Engine : 7.9
Wire-Up Engine : 3
Fabricate Inlet Plumbing : 1
Supply & Fit Radiator, Heater, Throttle Body Bypass & Power Steering Hoses : 1.5
Replace Fluids : 1
R&R CV Joint (Both Sides) : 1
Re-Boot CV Joint (Both Sides) : 3
Degrease Engine Bay : 1.5
Wire-Up Thermo Fan : 0.5
R&R Tie-Rod Ends : 0.5
Supply & Fit Mount Bracket : 0.5

TOTAL HOURS : 43.75

PARTS

U12 Intercooled CA18DET $1295
Cltuch $330
S13 Loom $150
S13 ECU $100
S13 Coil Ignitor $40
S13 Ballast Resitor $50
KN13 Exa Drivers side Mounting Brackets $35
Cam Belt $40
Full 3" Exhaust from turbo back, mild steel, higflow cat/muffler $690
KN13 Exa CA18DE Flywheel $65
Polyurithane Engine Mounts $160

Autometer Ultralite Boost Gauge $130
Autometer Ultralite Water Temp Gauge $130
GFB Hybrid Blow Off Valve $250
Machine Flywheel $30
CV Joints Outer and Inner $30
Tie-Rod Ends Left and Right $70
N14 SSS Brakes $80
Trans Fluid $10
Radiator Fluid $15
Pod Filter $40
Intercooler pipes $200
Frount Mount intercooler 600x300x76 $320
16" Davies Craig Thermo Fan $150

Degreaser $9.95
Electrical Tape $11.80
Solder (Roll) $6.95
Heat Shrink $11.95
Wiring Terminals $5.00
Relay $9.90
Top Radiator Hose $9.95
Bottom Hose $9.95
Heater Hose $19.90
F&R Engine Mount $29.90
Mount Bracket $33.00
Link Bushes $9.95
Crimp PS Hose $50.00
Oil Filter $8.95
Mobil 1 Oil (+.5 Litres To Clean Sump After Degreasing & Welding) $39.80
Trans Fluid $13.90
Power Steering Fluid $9.95
Sump Return Line Fitting $10.00
Sump Oil Seal Rear (OE# 11121OC410) $10.00
Sump Gasket Maker (OE# KP71000150) $30.00

TOTAL COST : $4747.80

This is EVERYTHING i needed to get done, all the hoses i got cheeeeep,
so expect to pay more. Most of the parts i got from NissanSilvia.com very cheap,
so look around before you buy everything at a wreckers.
Half of the stuff there i did not even consider when i budgeted.
So if you plan on doing this, have lots of money saved otherwise you go into debt

should be possible to do the conversion cheaper then that i reckon and it will be different since its going into an n12 chassie.

Android 360 · Post by **Android 360** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:11 pm

yeah id like to do it cheaper, but if you want a decent conversion that's going to last, you've gotta spend some dollars on it.

glenn.
surely with bigger brakes on the front and disks on the rear it would be even again.

the only reason the proportioning valve was played with was because the disks on the back were installed with standard fronts.