Oil Discussion

[ETT]

I read a lot about the effectiveness (or lack of effectiveness) of the ET water to oil cooler and some surprisingly thoughtless comments ranged upon them in the past. Frankly, I find most of it laughably ill informed.

Yas have gots to remember that the standard oil "cooler" CANNOT do any cooling to the oil unless the oil temperature actually EXCEEDS water temperature K.
Think about it right, oil is passing thru a core HEATED with engine coolant.
Its quite simple. Unless the oil temp exceeds water temp, the oil is actually HEATED!

This is why the collective brains trusts find little , if any different to oil temps with the removal of them, if anything, they may show slightly LOWER oil temps and so the misguided conclusion they they are useless.

If fact, you are removing a very useful method of actually HEATING the oil to correct operating temps as the cooling water will always heat up much faster than oil temps.
This very feature alone is sufficient reason to leave the stock heat exchanger in place, or put it back into service iffen it has been removed.

Furthermore, never be fooled by the apparent lack of size of a water to oil heat exchanger.
The reason air to oil coolers are so large is the very fact they they are SO INEFFICIENT compared to water/oil heat exchangers.
However on the flip side, they do add to the oil system capacity which is a good thing.
If air cooling was so wonderful, you would just pump air around your cooling system with a fan wouldnt you!
VW have been doing this for decades and require huge increases in surface area (cooling fins) to achieve even acceptable cooling of a dinky 40 horsepower engine!
There is almost an entire industry dedicated to adding oil, capacity, filtering and cooling ability to krauts!!

Witness the size of the correct heat exchanger required to cool, say a 200 HP marine diesel engine then. Its about 300mm long and about 75mm in diameter. It has to cool this with the engine producing this horsepower for many hours on end in a stuffy and hot engine compartment. Not just the odd blast down a drag strip or occasional long idles in traffic on a hot day.

What happens with the addition of a rediculously large air/oil cooler is that the oil actually has trouble heating up enough.
You can certainly run oil too cool same as you can run your engine water temp too cool.

Yous need to understand that oils are designed to run at or around 100 deg. C and all their technical and operating specifications are set at this temp. Why run them colder than what they are DESIGNED to operate at?
Oils are quite a science and those guys are not idiots and didnt pick this temp outta their arse but apparently, many so-called engine "experts" seem to believe they know more than lubrication scientists!

Running oil excessively cold results in significantly higher wear rates on moving surfaces and far greater oil dilution and worse, contamination due to insufficient heat being able to evaporate and remove water and other volatile contaminants that, along with combustion gasses produce extremely harmful and highly corrosive acids that wreak more havoc upon an engine than any amount of sustained high revving or hot low down lugging/idling you can throw at it.

If you insist on fitting an oil cooler capable of being used as a radiator in an emergency, you should ALWAYS fit an oil temperature thermostat which will bypass the cooler and promote faster warmups and reduced engine wear and so-on.
I use them religiously on my race engines to promote the fsatest warmups possible, especially down here in the high latitudes!

The ET's come with an excellent little oil/water heat exchanger that does a lot more positive things than its small size and bastard location would possibly indicate.
Nissan were not idiots when they fitted them at R & D stage.

Im tired now and need a good lie down.

L8tr
E

Oils are also designed to lubricate when at a very cold temp, using the right viscosity oil is very important! Warming the engine on initial startup or when engine is cold before driving off is just as important as letting the engine cool down after a fair run, so getting the engine oil to the right operating temp before driving heavy footed or even driving at all shouldnt be a big problem. Getting the engine oil to cool down when normal engine oil temps are exceeded is much harder and this is where a oil cooler can come in handy. The oil cooler in my application will be compensating for the extra temps that my engine oil will be subject to. Engine oil can and will break down at severe temps wether your engine oil will ever reach that temp is another story but keep in mind if your engine oil is due for change and ignored the oil breakdown temp is lowered dramatically.

[SammyET]

Its been established that allowing a car to warm up by idling is more wearing than driving gently straight away. This is simply because of the increased time taken to achieve operating temp at idle compared to under some load. Think of it just as the number of revolutions while cold.

Another thing to think about!! The standard oil water intercooler is anything if not MORE important on a race-spec engine. Remember.. you'd probably be runnin some thick mustard 40-70 oil or something.. absolutely useless while cold!!! The quicker you warm that oil the better.

[Panda_ET]

itd be nice to see some decent data logging between the 2 (not and having the cooler)

so hows this beast comin along anyway

[The Renegade]

Its been established that allowing a car to warm up by idling is more wearing than driving gently straight away. This is simply because of the increased time taken to achieve operating temp at idle compared to under some load. Think of it just as the number of revolutions while cold.

Another thing to think about!! The standard oil water intercooler is anything if not MORE important on a race-spec engine. Remember.. you'd probably be runnin some thick mustard 40-70 oil or something.. absolutely useless while cold!!! The quicker you warm that oil the better.

You could do like we had to working at Inverell last year in a cold snap during winter. I drove my Pajero out there with both tanks full of diesel, and the first morning i went to start it, the fuel was to thick to be pumped. So we had to light a fire under the fuel tank! Nervous half hour......

[Callumgw]

For my mind the oil cooler exchanger does have a place on these cars. As E said, good for getting things up to temp. But also vitally important went running an oil cooled turbo for stopping the oil cooking off. not so important for your 10-15 sec drag run, but round a track or on a hot day it is. My Startion (JA) had an air oil cooler standard and the later (JB-JD)ones got a bigger one. I'd started watching the pressure guage because I'd done the big ends at Mallala due to oil starvation I remember one 30 degree day, first days driving after changing the oil. When I started out the pressure guage was a good middle range, but by the time I got home it only sat in the lower quarter. I checked the volumes and they were still all good, after the oil was changed again, it was good for a while, but died within a month or so. The Oil had been cooked off by the turbo, it was a turbo rated shell product that I've never used again.
I suspect if your running a water cooled turbo this is less likely to happen, but with oil cooling I wouldn't run without a cooler.

C

[tassuperkart]

tassuperkart wrote:

Well, on a final note on this subject, the vscosity index of the oil has little to do with the operating temps of the oil and how it performs and no, oils are NOT designed to lubricate well at low temps.;
Sorry M8 but your information is wrong and you can run anything from treacle down to kerosene and it will not lubricate correctly at too low temps.
However, I agree with your concern of the thread hijack and ill move these oil posts to another topic.

ETT wrote:

I think you really need to get your facts right
Oil will best lubricate at its optimun operating temp and no one here said otherwise, what was said though is that oil will also lubricate at a sufficient rate when cold.
I already stated i didnt want anything else written up on oils in my thread but you couldnt help yourself and written up something that is totally wrong altogether.
If you have anything to write up on my ride than feel free, as for anything technical please stay out cause you dont have a clue seriously dude.

Your a right ornery little fella arent you!
Totally wrong eh?
Ok wiseguy, show me your facts to back up your claim that Im "totally wrong altogether" and this "you dont have a clue, really"
Tell me your industry experience with lube oils then hmmm?
This i gotta hear......
Heres a tip, *whispers* I used to work for a major oil company... *louder* but I spose I know nothing eh?
L8tr
E

[LonerET]

hey guys....i only just bought my car,and i have to ask...were is this water to oil cooler thing located anyway?? i'm not sure if i have 1 or not and i wouldnt mind knowing.

[tassuperkart]

Look down the back of the engine and there should be a stainlees steel can thing sitting to your right (passengers side) of the oil filter.
It will have 2 water hoses connected to it coming from the underside of the inlet manifold.
L8tr
E

[LonerET]

round cylnder lookin thing?? beside the oil filter,1 water hose comes from the left the other the right....rite?? yeah i got 1..