Bigger Engine swap legality in QLD, answers here

[DillonP]

I just spoke to a very helpful QLD transport certified mod plate engineer to satisfy my own curiosity.
Phil 0427 800 343

As far as engine swaps go and the increase in capacity allowed, he said :

Vehicles weighing less than 1100kg are allowed engines in CC's =
original vehicle weight in kgs
x 2.5 (turbo/sc)
or
x 3.0 for NA motors.

So our N12 is legal in QLD with an SR20DET and of course a CA18DET as well ....

He said a brake test would have to be carried out and it would pass if the systems were in good condition. I would upgrade the braking anyhow so this is a no-brainer.

Interesting, might be useful for someone here.

I still need to see and measure a CA and SR side by side and I think the CA has a cast iron block and the SR has an alloy block ? So the weight might be comparable.

I know Jon in Bris did the SR20DET swap years ago,
http://www.performanceforums.com/forums ... t=67210269
Don't know where it is now, it obviously physically fitted, the rest of the systems to make it driveable would be needed regardless of CA or SR.

[samwdg]

With the blocks, i think its the other way around, CA alloy and SR cast iron, just something i read somewhere or maybe im wrong.

With the brakes, the engineer i spoke too said as long as you got the same brakes as the car the engine came out of or better, should be passable.

CA's also fit easier then the SR as you dont have to change the mounts to much and the CA is just a cheaper option, but harder to source parts for.

[tassuperkart]

Dillon
You might like to get that engineer to have a look at the latest revision of the NCOPS.
Here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... eb2006.pdf
It appears he is mistaken on engine sizes versus weight versus capacity.

L8tr
E

[leayr]

i dont think think thats right but if hes gunna pass it go for it cheers leayr

[tassuperkart]

What this does go to show is NEVER trust the word of some engineer no matter what his reputation.

You have to have all your paperwork in writing and signed off before you begin major modifications.

One of my pit crew down here is feeling this kind of pain with a wild 13b turbo rotor/ 9"/ minitubs blah into an RX-3.

Engineer airily seys yer go ahead M8 its all good and when he actually lodges paperwork...AFTER the changeover then the shitfight began.
Endless changes and alterations to the original list of changes required to do the job. Bah!

Take note!

L8tr
E

[leayr]

hi here in newcastle i know a few engineers and they have told me in qld the laws are a lot more harder then here in nsw i know that the laws have change and for the worsted for engine transplantes and licences laws

ps here i no of some wld conversation's suck off 350 chev in bluebird and 1ggte in old school corola and fully nsw enginneered good luck and dont get shafted cheers leayr

[thepurplepulsar]

I know Jon in Bris did the SR20DET swap years ago,
http://www.performanceforums.com/forums ... t=67210269
Don't know where it is now, it obviously physically fitted, the rest of the systems to make it driveable would be needed regardless of CA or SR.

FYI Jon's set-up is still in Brisbane, the new owner is a member of this forum but I can't remember his username. From memory the SR20det was put into a N14 and the n/a SR out of that was then put into the ET.

[DillonP]

E, Qld has not adopted the National Code you linked to.
The engineer said to me last time as well that Qld is supposed to go to that code from Jan 09 but he cant see it happening as nothing has been put in place yet ...

Even so the current figures I was given are almost in line with those above.

He looked it up while I was on the phone, so this is info for all from the horses mouth, not guesswork you see on forums all the time.

[samwdg]

I know Jon in Bris did the SR20DET swap years ago,
http://www.performanceforums.com/forums ... t=67210269
Don't know where it is now, it obviously physically fitted, the rest of the systems to make it driveable would be needed regardless of CA or SR.

FYI Jon's set-up is still in Brisbane, the new owner is a member of this forum but I can't remember his username. From memory the SR20det was put into a N14 and the n/a SR out of that was then put into the ET.

What a waste of an SR20DET! Would have been way cooler in an n12, n14 sr20dets are too common. Thats my 2 bobs worth anyway...

[dexi_styles]

for your info guys... the member was psi999

http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php ... light=sr20

and he sold the engine out of it. cos i asked him how much he was asking...

package one to bolt into an N12, 8k

to get it done yourself, your looking at very little change from 25k

Cheers mate

Jon.

still thinking of doing it myself....
Cheers,
Adam

[tassuperkart]

Ill just re-iterate, just in case:

One of my pit crew down here is feeling this kind of pain with a wild 13b turbo rotor/ 9"/ minitubs blah into an RX-3.

Engineer airily seys yer go ahead M8 its all good and when he actually lodges paperwork...AFTER the changeover then the shitfight began.
Endless changes and alterations to the original list of changes required to do the job. Bah!

Thats exactly what you get from horses mouths M8.

L8tr
E

[thepurplepulsar]

for your info guys... the member was psi999

http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php ... light=sr20

and he sold the engine out of it. cos i asked him how much he was asking...

package one to bolt into an N12, 8k
to get it done yourself, your looking at very little change from 25k
Cheers mate
Jon.

still thinking of doing it myself....
Cheers,
Adam

Here's the current owner, Tripsss.
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=3541

[DillonP]

I don't know what more you guys want ??

I have found out the QLD laws and posted them up and you guys still want to contest them ?

Yes always get signed off approval of your project and sight the rules yourself to avoid interpretation.

The really sucky thing about Qld Transport is that they farm out the approvals to approved certifiers ...
- ring QT -
"can you tell me or send me a list of the approved persons?"
"we don't keep a list"
"your site has no list and says to ring a branch ..."
"you would have to find them in yellow pages"
"thanks there is only 5000 mechanics in there"
- ring certifier -
he was helpful, seriously.
"blah blah blah you would need to read code xxx to see the exact details about roll cages"
- ring QT -
"where can I view the code?"
"certifier has the code"
"certifier said to get it off you, can I view it at your office or a QT branch?"
"no it is not available there"
"can you email or fax or post me a copy?"
"no it is a licensed book and we can't do that"
"it's your laws and you want me to follow them but I can't read them?"
"it's available from the Govt bookstore"
- ring GBS -
"yes we have it, $90, can't send part chapters"

https://www.bookshop.qld.gov.au/ProdVie ... duct=M7585

So my first post is the summary, be thankful I did it, fairly frustrating.
I can see I will have to buy that book to satisfy myself and answer my own questions.

[tassuperkart]

No Dillon, nobody is contesting anything at all. In fact we fell your pain.
However, you are in the same boat that even the engineers are in.
This is the very reason a nationalc code of practises has been drafted up.

The rules and regs go with the moniker of NCOP (National Code Of Practise) due to being supposedly a NATIONAL set of rules and regs.
Whether QLD or any other state has adopted them as yet or not is neither here nor there really.
They will be forced to eventually.

Its a simple fact that these "engineers" (nothing more than approved motor mechanics) you refer to are often not that boned up on the laws and regulations themselves that they are supposed to dispense. As you have found out, how could they been when they dont even have easy access to such documentation????

This is not always their fault as the very laws and regs they are charged to dispense change so often and are in the charge of different oand often unrelated departments FFS!.

They regularly lead people astray with erroneous advice as i have mentioned twice above.

My point was, for anybody contempleting a non standard conversion AND having it engineered and legal, is to ensure they have the appropriate engineering and legal documentation completed well BEFORE they embark on their project.

Its hard to dispute when you have it in writing.

Relax and chill M8, it is all good K?

L8tr
E

[Panda_ET]

With the blocks, i think its the other way around, CA alloy and SR cast iron, just something i read somewhere or maybe im wrong.

With the brakes, the engineer i spoke too said as long as you got the same brakes as the car the engine came out of or better, should be passable.

CA's also fit easier then the SR as you dont have to change the mounts to much and the CA is just a cheaper option, but harder to source parts for.

yes you is wrong young lad. CA block is 100% definite to be a cast block and Sr is an ALL alloy engine