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Will n12 turbo instrument cluster fit non-turbo?

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KiloooNL
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Will n12 turbo instrument cluster fit non-turbo?

Post by KiloooNL »

My n12's fuel gauge doesn't work, and its really hard to find non-turbo n12 parts. A guy who is parting out his n12 turbo has a spare instrument cluster, but my question is would the wiring/harness be the same as the non-turbo version?

Does anybody know?
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tassuperkart
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Post by tassuperkart »

Firstly, are you sure its the guage?
What tests have you done to determine this?

IIRC the connections are different and youll have to graft the ET plugs onto the atmo wiring.

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Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
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KiloooNL
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Post by KiloooNL »

tassuperkart wrote:Firstly, are you sure its the guage?
What tests have you done to determine this?

IIRC the connections are different and youll have to graft the ET plugs onto the atmo wiring.

Oracle
Positive. Have tested the sender unit in the fuel tank, even replaced it.
Pulled the instrument cluster apart recently and fiddled with the 2 tiny wires that connect to the fuel gauge solder points and it put the gauge back up to full, so I tried to make those two wires smaller so it puts more tension on them and it now goes back up to full when I fill the tank.

However it drops back to1/4 of a tank after about 10L of the tank is used.

I picked up the instrument cluster tonight and it does indeed have a different harness/plug. But I'm handy with electronics and soldering enough to know which wires are which... So my new question is, is there a place/store I could buy a wiring harness for the instrument cluster so i could solder and re-connect the wires from the non-turbo to the turbo dash?
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amraks
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Post by amraks »

It would be expensive to buy these.

Also your problem does sound like a fuel sender.

The carbon trace seems to be worn between 1/4 to full.

I have had numerous troubles in my Subaru with fuel sender unit doing this.
fixing it was pretty easy you can move the meter board over half a mm to take a new path.

after years and year of going up down in the same place that carbon trace gets wear. this carbon paper acts as a resistor sending different resistants to the fuel gauge to make it work. the resistance is usually sent as a pulse so you do not notice a surge when you turn the corners.

so because its worn the resistance would be gone, which would be the thickness of the carbon paper down the bottom which is empty.
so the fuel gauge is getting the signal of resistance which calculates to empty.

hope I explain that right.
Amraks
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tassuperkart
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Post by tassuperkart »

2 things here.
Firstly, he already changed the tank sender.
Secondly, the Pullstart senders are wire-wound so one munted, they stay munted.

Now, to the OP.
So you swapped senders but was there a need? Did you yo actually check the guage? Im guessing not!
Fair bit of time wasted chasing red herrings when some simple tests will isolate the issue.

First test is to simply short the guage SIGNAL wire at the sender on the tank to ground and see what the guage does.
If the guage moves thru the its entire range from end to end then your guage and wiring as far as the tank are ok.

If the guage does not move you ground it up at the back of the dash and this tests for dodgey wiring between the dash and the tank.

This isolates the trouble to the wiring or the guage.

Have you checked the voltage regulator on the back of the dash for correct signal send voltage? I cant remember now what the guage regulators are set at but +5v seems to ring a bell.

You can test for the sender using a multimeter set to minimum ohms and continuity with some resistance indicates a working sender.

The problem now being that you have dicked with the guage and altered its calibration possibly beyond repair.

Next, you cannot use the ET guage with the atmo sender and vice versa as the resistance ranges are different between the senders and so the guages.

Furthermore, the atmo and ET senders are completely different in construction and cannot be swapped over without drastic surgery.

THIS I know as i have tried.

What your going to end up with is a shitload of work in cutting off and resoldering all those dash connections and end up with a guage that does not work properly anyway!!!!

Since the resistance range of the atmo sender is far LESS that the ET sender, youll end up with a guage that just reads either full or empty all the time!!!!

Way it is.

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baz
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Post by baz »

lol, its not hard to find 2nd hand n12 n/a bits..Evan is right!..Should of earthed out the sender wire & checked that before dicking about with the dash..
My old exa I created from granny spec to a neat little BRIGHT car: http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=3903

Current Car: 2004 Vz SS Ute
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Post by zoomzoom »

upull elizabeth had about a dozen of them 12 months ago n/a n12's that is









zoomzoom
tits'n' wheels gotta love'em
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Post by KiloooNL »

tassuperkart wrote:2 things here.
Firstly, he already changed the tank sender.
Secondly, the Pullstart senders are wire-wound so one munted, they stay munted.

Now, to the OP.
So you swapped senders but was there a need? Did you yo actually check the guage? Im guessing not!
Fair bit of time wasted chasing red herrings when some simple tests will isolate the issue.

First test is to simply short the guage SIGNAL wire at the sender on the tank to ground and see what the guage does.
If the guage moves thru the its entire range from end to end then your guage and wiring as far as the tank are ok.

If the guage does not move you ground it up at the back of the dash and this tests for dodgey wiring between the dash and the tank.

This isolates the trouble to the wiring or the guage.

Have you checked the voltage regulator on the back of the dash for correct signal send voltage? I cant remember now what the guage regulators are set at but +5v seems to ring a bell.

You can test for the sender using a multimeter set to minimum ohms and continuity with some resistance indicates a working sender.

The problem now being that you have dicked with the guage and altered its calibration possibly beyond repair.

Next, you cannot use the ET guage with the atmo sender and vice versa as the resistance ranges are different between the senders and so the guages.

Furthermore, the atmo and ET senders are completely different in construction and cannot be swapped over without drastic surgery.

THIS I know as i have tried.

What your going to end up with is a shitload of work in cutting off and resoldering all those dash connections and end up with a guage that does not work properly anyway!!!!

Since the resistance range of the atmo sender is far LESS that the ET sender, youll end up with a guage that just reads either full or empty all the time!!!!

Way it is.

Oracle
I wasn't the one who swapped the sender unit to isolate the problem, the guy I bought it off of took it to a mechanic and he said it would fix the problem, so he replaced it. I did check the gauge. I physically took the sender out of the tank and pushed it up and down and it would slide up to full and back down to empty.

This is where I took the instrument cluster apart and tensioned the two wires, and ever since it has been going to full when I fill the tank, whereas it never has before I tensioned those two wires.

However ever since this it has been dropping back to 2/4-1/4 when about 10L of the tank has been used.

When I get the time I will do some tests with a multi-meter. Thanks for your input.
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Post by amraks »

its your fuel sender nothing to do with cluster.

I wouldn't believe shit what someone told you when you bought the car.
Change the fuel sender but could be too late you could of fucked that cluster,

You now probably have to change both.
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Post by baz »

He said she said bullcrap..Thats like saying that your car got rebuilt a few months ago, no paper work tho, but i can assure you, its been rebuilt..It's all void!
My old exa I created from granny spec to a neat little BRIGHT car: http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=3903

Current Car: 2004 Vz SS Ute
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Post by amraks »

kilooonl wrote:
tassuperkart wrote:2 things here.
Firstly, he already changed the tank sender.
Secondly, the Pullstart senders are wire-wound so one munted, they stay munted.

Now, to the OP.
So you swapped senders but was there a need? Did you yo actually check the guage? Im guessing not!
Fair bit of time wasted chasing red herrings when some simple tests will isolate the issue.

First test is to simply short the guage SIGNAL wire at the sender on the tank to ground and see what the guage does.
If the guage moves thru the its entire range from end to end then your guage and wiring as far as the tank are ok.

If the guage does not move you ground it up at the back of the dash and this tests for dodgey wiring between the dash and the tank.

This isolates the trouble to the wiring or the guage.

Have you checked the voltage regulator on the back of the dash for correct signal send voltage? I cant remember now what the guage regulators are set at but +5v seems to ring a bell.

You can test for the sender using a multimeter set to minimum ohms and continuity with some resistance indicates a working sender.

The problem now being that you have dicked with the guage and altered its calibration possibly beyond repair.

Next, you cannot use the ET guage with the atmo sender and vice versa as the resistance ranges are different between the senders and so the guages.

Furthermore, the atmo and ET senders are completely different in construction and cannot be swapped over without drastic surgery.

THIS I know as i have tried.

What your going to end up with is a shitload of work in cutting off and resoldering all those dash connections and end up with a guage that does not work properly anyway!!!!

Since the resistance range of the atmo sender is far LESS that the ET sender, youll end up with a guage that just reads either full or empty all the time!!!!

Way it is.

Oracle
I wasn't the one who swapped the sender unit to isolate the problem, the guy I bought it off of took it to a mechanic and he said it would fix the problem, so he replaced it. I did check the gauge. I physically took the sender out of the tank and pushed it up and down and it would slide up to full and back down to empty.

This is where I took the instrument cluster apart and tensioned the two wires, and ever since it has been going to full when I fill the tank, whereas it never has before I tensioned those two wires.

However ever since this it has been dropping back to 2/4-1/4 when about 10L of the tank has been used.

When I get the time I will do some tests with a multi-meter. Thanks for your input.
when you took the fuel sender out and tested it that proved the instrument cluster worked.

The fuel sender isn't making the appropriate contact with the needle and the pcb carbon trace being the issue.

But seems you have messed with instrument cluster now you will be up for 2 parts instead.
Amraks
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Post by tassuperkart »

amraks wrote:The fuel sender isn't making the appropriate contact with the needle and the pcb carbon trace being the issue.
I mentioned this before but FYI, Nissan N12 fuel level senders use a wire wound resistor and turbo and nonpturbo are NOT interchangeable.

Only the AFM has wipers and a carbon track.

Oracle
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Post by amraks »

tassuperkart wrote:
amraks wrote:The fuel sender isn't making the appropriate contact with the needle and the pcb carbon trace being the issue.
I mentioned this before but FYI, Nissan N12 fuel level senders use a wire wound resistor and turbo and nonpturbo are NOT interchangeable.

Only the AFM has wipers and a carbon track.

Oracle
I will have to have a look at one tonight.

I have pulled out one from the ET, I was wrecking but never really looked over it. will check it out tonight.
Amraks
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