N12Turbo.com lanyards are now available! Click here to visit the shop

manifold

General chat related to anything N12.
User avatar
poeticjustice88
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 am
Location: gold coast, queensland

manifold

Post by poeticjustice88 »

ok i am having trouble getting an exhaust manifold to not leak on my car, so simply out of curiousity and simplicity, are there any exhaust manifolds out there that bolt onto the e15et ?

i ask simply because if say an SR20 manifold (i know they dont) was to bolt straight up to the e15, they are freaking everywhere, and you can get stainless high/low mount manifolds for a fraction of the price of getting one made.

so i figured if i could find out what fits, i would be able to hunt one down.

CA, SR, Gemini, VW, anything really.

i have been trying to get a hold of ahbee whom is selling one on here, but to no prevail.

so if you know of anything that fits, or have one yourself, please let me know, as i am sick to death of pulling the bloody things off to try and fix it and it not working

Michael
User avatar
dexi_styles
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: South Brisbane

Post by dexi_styles »

Nothing off the shelf will fit.

You'll need to get a custom one made

Dex
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=446 Benny's Old Dog....
Bringing New life to the Young Dog...
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=348
Image
User avatar
Callumgw
Posts: 2354
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Callumgw »

I've had a lot of issues with exhaust manifold sealing over the years. I was using the "standard gaskets" (the gray fibrous ones you get at the auto stores), I tried several manifold and they always leaked. Next I cut my own from gasket material and that did much better, but it still eventually leaked. Putting a soft link in the exhaust pipe helps a lot, it reduces the loads and improves gasket life.

This build I have got my hands on a proper metal turbo gasket and crimped locking nuts - lets see how long that lasts
Last edited by Callumgw on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BennyET
Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gold Coast, Qld

Post by BennyET »

the only one that lasted for me are the 'permaseal' type.

http://www.aagaskets.com.au/SetDetails.aspx?SetID=2847

they crush and seal well, make sure it looks like this
Image
I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense.
User avatar
dexi_styles
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: South Brisbane

Post by dexi_styles »

BennyET wrote:the only one that lasted for me are the 'permaseal' type.

http://www.aagaskets.com.au/SetDetails.aspx?SetID=2847

they crush and seal well, make sure it looks like this
Image
That's the only gasket I use. Ever since I blow the paper gasket when I bought it, I changed it to the "permaseal" gasket

Dex[/list]
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=446 Benny's Old Dog....
Bringing New life to the Young Dog...
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=348
Image
User avatar
tassuperkart
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
Location: Southern Tasmania
Contact:

Post by tassuperkart »

Well, to be honest, ive NEVER had issues with leaking or blown flange gaskets. Nor do i see the need for funky metallised gasket material only available in some engine shop in Canada.
I have been using the same old fibre gasket set, WITHOUT any additional sealant, since i built the bloody engine some years back and the manifold has been off several times since original build.

From what I see, so many meatheads just rip these manifold nuts up to within a millimeter of stripping and more often than not, start at one end and work their way along....turkeys.

FFS!
1st, ENSURE the manifold face is machined flat to begin with. Both faces. The turbo face is prone to warping and pulling due to overtightening of the turbo nuts.
2nd, when fitting the manifold, use some subtlety and start tightening the nuts progressively in a similar manner to a head gasket.
The gaskets are designed to crush somewhat to account for any uneveness so uneven tightening will result in uneven crushing.

I offer up the manifold up squarely against the head, hold it in position and tighten the nuts by HAND so the manifold is sitting squarely and evenly on the face of the head.
Then I start with the middle bolt and work my way towards the ends in a sort of circular manner similar to headstuds.
Just nip them a fuckingwell bit at a time.. all nice and even. patience is the key here.

Remember, the head studs are pissy little M8, into alloy so DO NOT rip them up tight.
FFS...If you dont know what 15/18 Ft/Lb feels like then buy a fucking torque wrench or get some cunt who has half a tightening brain to tighten them for yous all....... sheesh!

Most of the time dudes just go blindly ahead tightening bolts up left right and center and in the end, pull the manifold this way and that, all loaded up unevenly.
When the manifold gets red hot (which it WILL) the whole thing sags and bends to the unevenly squashed gaskets and STAYS that way, or worse, it can crack.
Subsequent gasklet replacements will almost NEVER seal.

Take your time to do this apparently simple task correctly and youll be rewarded with years of trouble free running, at high boost, even using old gaskets.

L8r
Oracle
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
User avatar
poeticjustice88
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 am
Location: gold coast, queensland

tass

Post by poeticjustice88 »

i appreciate your input tass, and i have a high amount of respect for your opinion. However, it, for some reason, feels like you are having a go at me, or saying i have done something idiotically stupid.

i do understand the mechanics of tightening something unevenly.
as i stated earlier. i have removed the manifold and replaced the gasket several times but alas it has no lasting affect. the seal only lasts a couple of days at the most.
User avatar
tassuperkart
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
Location: Southern Tasmania
Contact:

Post by tassuperkart »

Nah M8 not pointing any fingers at all. Its just a general thing aimed at all.
Not meant to seem aimed at you. its more for the meatheads!

Reeelax.

Oracle
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
User avatar
poeticjustice88
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 am
Location: gold coast, queensland

Post by poeticjustice88 »

no harm, no foul
virtual beer !
User avatar
tassuperkart
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
Location: Southern Tasmania
Contact:

Post by tassuperkart »

H5!
Oh, youll know if I even make it personal against anyone M8......LMAO! No mistake then!!!!

At ease seargeant!


oracle
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
User avatar
dexi_styles
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: South Brisbane

Post by dexi_styles »

I buy my gaskets from repco, readily available all over Australia
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=446 Benny's Old Dog....
Bringing New life to the Young Dog...
http://forum.n12turbo.com/viewtopic.php?t=348
Image
User avatar
Callumgw
Posts: 2354
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Callumgw »

E,
I do all those things and have still had plenty of trouble with those stupid grey fibrous things, even tried different manifolds and had one skimmed to get flat. I also tried every sort of locking washer and a few locking nuts...never had such a recurring issue on any other car... This is also over 2 different heads. If this 'proper' gasket (has metal rings and a heat sheild flange built in) doesn't work I reckon I'll weld it on next time!

C
User avatar
Timmzy
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:54 am
Location: Melbourne

d

Post by Timmzy »

As usual with these things - I've found its a combination of a couple of things.

With our stupid combination of turbo positional overhang, weight and engine mounting setup - we may probably never keep the manifold bolts tight - and if you manage to the next bolts to undo themselves will be the turbo bolts.

I had terrible issues with the old engine mount shock absorpers being flogged out and in hard gearing down while racing - the turbo bolts could undo themselves within 5 laps of sandown.

I've found this combination to work successfully IE Turbo/manifold bolts need tightening once per year:
- Solid front mount, N/A rear mount. New rubber side mounts.
- FLex pipe in exhaust under sump.
-=Bolting exhaust up nice and snug as close to engine as possible at the rear engine mount
- Re-installing the metal supports that bolt from the block up onto the exhaust of the turbo housing. THese are the first things you throw in the bin when upgrading turbo. Keep them OR adapt them to your new turbos setup - they are required to take the weight off manifold bolts.
- Use casalated nuts on the turbo threads with a thin shim washer under them. Casalated nusts are like metal nylox nuts.
- Use high tensile nuts and spring washers on manifold bolts.
- Ensure head and manifold face are dead flat - use a straight edge to check this.
- Using the standard Nissan grey gaskets. I "reused" the original ones for the last build and I know you are not supposed to do this - but it has continued to work for some time.

GOod luck!

Darren.
Race it.
User avatar
Kimmo
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:40 am
Location: Footscray

Post by Kimmo »

tassuperkart wrote:Well, to be honest, ive NEVER had issues with leaking or blown flange gaskets. Nor do i see the need for funky metallised gasket material only available in some engine shop in Canada.
I have been using the same old fibre gasket set, WITHOUT any additional sealant, since i built the bloody engine some years back and the manifold has been off several times since original build.

From what I see, so many meatheads just rip these manifold nuts up to within a millimeter of stripping and more often than not, start at one end and work their way along....turkeys.

FFS!
1st, ENSURE the manifold face is machined flat to begin with. Both faces. The turbo face is prone to warping and pulling due to overtightening of the turbo nuts.
2nd, when fitting the manifold, use some subtlety and start tightening the nuts progressively in a similar manner to a head gasket.
The gaskets are designed to crush somewhat to account for any uneveness so uneven tightening will result in uneven crushing.

I offer up the manifold up squarely against the head, hold it in position and tighten the nuts by HAND so the manifold is sitting squarely and evenly on the face of the head.
Then I start with the middle bolt and work my way towards the ends in a sort of circular manner similar to headstuds.
Just nip them a fuckingwell bit at a time.. all nice and even. patience is the key here.

Remember, the head studs are pissy little M8, into alloy so DO NOT rip them up tight.
FFS...If you dont know what 15/18 Ft/Lb feels like then buy a fucking torque wrench or get some cunt who has half a tightening brain to tighten them for yous all....... sheesh!

Most of the time dudes just go blindly ahead tightening bolts up left right and center and in the end, pull the manifold this way and that, all loaded up unevenly.
When the manifold gets red hot (which it WILL) the whole thing sags and bends to the unevenly squashed gaskets and STAYS that way, or worse, it can crack.
Subsequent gasklet replacements will almost NEVER seal.

Take your time to do this apparently simple task correctly and youll be rewarded with years of trouble free running, at high boost, even using old gaskets.

L8r
Oracle
All this gives me a horrible feeling I paid for manifold machining and then gave up on the cast manifold and sprung for a custom one (that was built like shit), just cause I used to pay other cunts to work on my car.

Oh well, getting boned by that crook of an exhaust guy taught me not to make that mistake again. DIY FTW. Fucking monkeys.
User avatar
tassuperkart
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5578
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 pm
Location: Southern Tasmania
Contact:

Post by tassuperkart »

On the subject of fasteners, I use the STOCK non-friction nuts but i insist on using the very thick washers underneath.
NEVER had an issue. Never bothered with spring washers or any other kind of locking.

Darren makes a good point about the turbo bracket and engine movement.
The turbo should NEVER be simply hung off the engine and asked to carry the weight of the exhaust as well.

I went slightly different with my latest setup.
The dump pipe is securely bracketed hard to the back engine mount.
The flex pipe is past this bracket. The main pipework is supported by a hanger just aft of the flex pipe to prevent it hanging down.
The entire exhaust pipework is suspended on rubber hangers to allow free movement in any direction.

All this allows the engine to rotate in any direction and the dump pipe just moves as a unit with the engine and the flex pipe takes care of the movement.
The dump also acts as a bracket for the turbo as well so there is no weight actually hanging off my turbo.
Forcd4 wrote:Oh fuk no dude it's you a again, the oracle.
Post Reply