So who knows turbo seals?

[Kimmo]

I've been through three crapped-out T2s, had a T25G pinched before I could install it, and now the T25G with T25 turbine housing I've painstakingly cobbled together turns out to be utterly cactus, despite having zero shaft play. I'm so fucking sick of trying to sort out the damn smoke, and the EPA's sent me two letters already. Next time someone dobs me in, I'm gonna be stung with a fat fine I can't pay, cause I obviously can't afford to own a car that doesn't smoke... bastards.

i have a T25 at home that has absolutely no shaft play as well... its perfect, but its still fucked.. when the back seals go and you drive it heaps after, it fills up with a graphite coloured and textured substance and makes the bearing feel tight and new without actually stopping the oil.

heres a top tip for next time. "absolutely no shaft play", is BAD. you need a little side to side, but no front to back movement. Also the only way to actually check a turbo out, ie using your fingers and saying its all good is rubbish, is to take it to a turbo shop to have it spun up on the machine and check it for balance and oil sealing capacity.

So, it needs a bloody rebuild. After having a squiz around, I see there's two options.

One mob reckons a carbon seal's the go, but another joint says they're on older turbos... if Garrett ditched the carbon seal around 1990 for what's called a dynamic seal, it doesn't seem like it'd be superior... but the kit with the carbon seal is more expensive.

Kansai-Sport

G-Pop Shop

Anyone know the score re carbon vs dynamic seal?

[Kimmo]

Anyone? With even half a clue?

[wis41]

Yeah I'd like to know too - mines due for a rebuild...

[BennyET]

someone here will have much more than half a clue: 1300 887 267
its a free call, nothing to lose

[SashET]

Is the smoke white or another colour?

If its white, whats the dump pipe look like? Oily? Does it look like mine did below?







If so, then oil is leaking past the seals and into the exhaust housing. My old T2 covered the dump pipe in oil as you can see above and my new T25 was starting to experience the same problem which then led me down the path of a block return line as you would know from my other post. Take the return line off and jam a screw driver in there gently. See how far you can get the screw driver in, at first I could only get it in about 80-100mm until I pulled it out and with it came that little piece of turbo bearing (or whatever the fuck it is). After taking that out, I could get the screw driver in there all the way (at least 200mm) before I ran out of screwdriver and the handle hit the spout. I was lucky too because I have a MT8 running extremely rich which sooted up the dump pipe rather quickly and seemed to stop the smoke (almost like drying out the dump pipe oil with talcum powder......the only way I can really explain it).

1. Take the dump off and have a good look. Post pics.
2. Take the return line off and jam a screw driver in there gently. (tell us what you see/feel, take pics and post 'em up).
3. Check the PCV valve from the rocker cover to inlet manifold. Report back what you find there.
4. Check the other rocker breather (the one that connects to before the turbo) and report back what you find there also.
3. Pray!

Cheer's
Sash

[angel]

when i researched this topic, i found out the putting new seals in is rather expensive, because they have to rebalance the whole thing.
Maybe you should think about springing for a new turbo, thats what i did, i got sick of old turbo's shitting them sleves on me, ie rooted seals

[BennyET]

when i researched this topic, i found out the putting new seals in is rather expensive, because they have to rebalance the whole thing.
Maybe you should think about springing for a new turbo, thats what i did, i got sick of old turbo's shitting them sleves on me, ie rooted seals

i paid $600 to have mine rebuilt once, only to crap out again 6months later. sent it to a more reputable rebuilder and found it should have been machined out and have bigger bearings fitted. cost half as much more again but has been well worth it so far.
only problem is i could have a brand new GT item

[Kimmo]

I should mention my motor was rebuilt not long ago with new rings, valve guides, etc. and the smoke is white.


Sash, is your car running ok now?


All the turbos I've had on my car have smoked differently... this one only smokes on boost, nothing under vacuum. It doesn't have zero play anymore, either - after only one or two hundred clicks, it feels pretty average; between one and two mil.

I'd be pretty surprised if the seal isn't rooted; the last turbo smoked heaps less. I can't see a blocked oil drain getting suddenly worse the instant I changed the turbo. But I'll check it out...

Oh yeah, the word is you can get away without rebalancing the turbs after a rebuild if you score a line first, and make sure it lines up exactly on reassembly.

I figure it's worth a shot...

someone here will have much more than half a clue: 1300 887 267
its a free call, nothing to lose

Who is that?

[BennyET]

someone here will have much more than half a clue: 1300 887 267
its a free call, nothing to lose

Who is that?

GCG in sydney. they'll answer all your q's, esp. on these carbon v dynamic seals?

[SashET]

Sash, is your car running ok now?

Yes, it seems to be fine now, but I'm keeping my eye on it quite closely for the time being.

I'd be pretty surprised if the seal isn't rooted; the last turbo smoked heaps less. I can't see a blocked oil drain getting suddenly worse the instant I changed the turbo. But I'll check it out...

I'd definatley be checking this out. I think the thing I found in mine was there long before I got the engine and only rattled loose and maybe caused it to turn slightly causing more of a blockage after I did wired the MT8 in because at this point I was doing quite a bit of work to the car (MT8, Jap Inlet Manifold and a fuck load of wiring). It would have had heaps of time to move and block the return pipe more. To add to this, I suspect that it was this thing loadged in there that made my T2 shit itself all over the place and then almost did the same thing to my T25 before I dislodged it. Take a good look and stick a screw driver in there as well. 2 minute job for some piece of mind.

Cheer's
Sash

[Ben Hewitson]

honeslty these things go alright. just ask GarethSS how is Twin Turbo commodore and the dozens more of them that he's built run. great reliability and they are c..h..e..a...p...

KKR280

Fast response for small capacity engines
Water-cooled, 0.49 turbine housing suits T25 size flange
Internal wastegate with 8psi actuator
Suitable for single-turbo applications on 1.3-1.8 litre engines, or in twin turbo kits on 2.5-4.0 litre engines
Comes with dummy exhaust flange for making a dump pipe, T25 exhaust gasket, oil inlet banjo bolt and oil return gasket.

RRP $699

[Ben Hewitson]

or...... find yourself a stock E15s exhaust manifold and run it in N/A for a while. works a treat and will get you out of trouble will you can get the $$'s together for a new turbo.

[The Renegade]

I believe WES had some extractors for sale a while back........ They were cheap.

[Kimmo]

Man, WTF? If only I'd known I could get a new one for $700 that requires no fucking around... I've already spent $700 on turbos, easy.

Is that water cooled?

[SashET]

KKR280

Fast response for small capacity engines
Water-cooled, 0.49 turbine housing suits T25 size flange
Internal wastegate with 8psi actuator
Suitable for single-turbo applications on 1.3-1.8 litre engines, or in twin turbo kits on 2.5-4.0 litre engines
Comes with dummy exhaust flange for making a dump pipe, T25 exhaust gasket, oil inlet banjo bolt and oil return gasket.

RRP $699

Yep...

Cheer's
Sash