Dan's TUFFET picture update

Post by **Ash** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:42 pm

tassuperkart wrote:I think if you want something like this to get real cold then Id be filling it with liquid nitrogen.

then shoot it and watch it shatter apart in super slow mo. how cool!

why bother with using anything else or adding water to dry ice, it's just not needed. dry ice seems to do the trick for plenty of big horsepower drag cars around the world. shit whats wrong with a few degrees below zero? sure it doesn't last all that long but for a car setup for drag then why should that matter?

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:47 pm

Of course ice can get below 0 degrees, just like steam can get above 100. How warm do you reckon a chunk of ice in space is?
Try about -270...

Okay, picture this. Your cooler is full of dry ice, and you pour about 200ml of refrigerated water in. What happens?

Well, I'd say you're going to melt (sublime, actually) some CO2 of course, but what happens to the water? Won't it just pool at the bottom and freeze without destroying anything? It's only 200ml. Okay, maybe it won't make it to the bottom before it freezes, so you may need to just put a quarter of the CO2 in at a time.

Anyway, you've got the water freezing pretty quick cause there's fuck-all of it next to all the dry ice, and it's doing it in the bottom of the cooler without wrecking it. What happens with ice cubes? They don't destroy the ice cube trays; they just expand up. So you could prolly add like 500ml at a time. Now repeat, and voila.

LN2's prolly a bit harder to get hold of than dry ice, innit?

Ash wrote:why bother with using anything else or adding water to dry ice, it's just not needed. dry ice seems to do the trick for plenty of big horsepower drag cars around the world. shit whats wrong with a few degrees below zero? sure it doesn't last all that long but for a car setup for drag then why should that matter?

Cause ice conducts heat more than 90 times better than air, which just keeps getting denser the colder it gets.

Getting more fuel into the engine is a cinch; the air's the hard part.

Callumgw · Post by **Callumgw** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:05 pm

most people are having trouble with your "loose" use of the word water. If it's solid it isn't water, it's ice, if its gaseous it isn't water it's steam.

otherwise I think we're in one of those slightly stupid discussions about the last 1/100 of performance. dry ice works and get inlet temps down to about -10, sounds good to me.

C

Post by **Ash** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:21 pm

Callumgw wrote:most people are having trouble with your "loose" use of the word water. If it's solid it isn't water, it's ice, if its gaseous it isn't water it's steam.

otherwise I think we're in one of those slightly stupid discussions about the last 1/100 of performance. dry ice works and get inlet temps down to about -10, sounds good to me.

C

EX.....ACT.......A......MONDO!

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:41 pm

Bah, CO2 melts at −78.5...

So you could get your intake temps lower than -10 with it.

Is it expensive? Now I wanna play with some...

MR D · Post by **MR D** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:34 pm

We calculate we will see better than -50deg on the start line and we will cross the finish line at just below zero with no ice left in the box.

You will achieve very little adding any water except helping to melt the dry ice a little faster. Think of it as just like pissing in the snow.

We actually had the idea for this cooler approximately 6 years ago when we still had the factory and we had some dry ice bricks that we were using in the shop. Apart from dropping the blocks into the toilet and fogging up the shitter, we decided to try it on a top mount intercooler on a customers Subaru Legacy wagon. We saw below zero inlet temps on the start line and dramatically reduced inlet temps crossing the finish line, (he also ran 3 personal best E.T's in a row). Unlike melting normal ice the dry ice doesn't produce any water so you don't have any hassles with officials on the start line either. After this we new we had to try it on TUFFET. We then spoke to a contact who was also starting to play with similar ideas (he has gone on to building a lot of the best dry ice coolers around) and decided we would get a core produced to suit our application. The intercooler itself we finished fabricating about 5 years ago. With Dan going to Japan several times and the both of us moving into different fields after closing up MRD it has simply sat around with TUFFET gathering dust (as have a lot of other new components we will run this time around). Only recently have we started to get the car back together, though this time we aren't out to prove anything or be the quickest or showcase our work or any other shit. It is simply for the fun of it, to continue learning and the joy of fabricating nice components for Dan's little car. It's great to see all these cool components we made so long ago finally going into TUFFET and getting put to use.

On another note, what is the cost and handling dilemas of dry ice versus liquid nitrogen? Can we transport the liquid nitrogen in an eski as we can with the dry ice?

We'll keep you posted with any progress we make.

Post by **tassuperkart** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:42 pm

Liquid nitrogen comes in a heavily insulated metal "churn" looking thing of various sizes.
-196 Dec. C
Id be talking to the likes of LiquidAir, BOC et al. or the likes of
http://www.liquidnitrogenservices.com.au/index.htm
L8tr
E

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:43 pm

I got to muck around with some at uni last year; it's pretty gnarly shit.

I'd expect there's a fair bit to it...

Post by **tassuperkart** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:47 pm

Ummm, I dont think so M8.

Its non-toxic in any way, it can asphyxiate in confined spaces tho but its fair cold in liquid form so handling it needs some attention as far as personal safety wear.

As far as anything else, you just pour it out of its container but dont splash any on yaself as it results in pretty nasty frostbite.

Commonsense is the key with stuff like this.

L8tr
E

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:12 pm

I meant in terms of getting hold of it.

I would've thought you might need some sort of license...

Post by **tassuperkart** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:28 am

Ahhh no I dont believe so M8.
Cant see why, its only cold!.
L8tr
E

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:30 am

Here's why... I think sudden phase changes might have something to do with it

photoglossy · Post by **photoglossy** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:26 am

Have you guys held dry ice before? In year 11 our science teacher let us literally throw it at eachother around the classroom haha! No safety gear or anything and i could hold it in my hand no worries. Good times

Then there have been a couple of parties ive been to with dry ice in the punch, and you can hold that between your teeth for about 20sec before your teeth start hurting haha.

Maybe there are different grades of dry ice or something???

Kimmo · Post by **Kimmo** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:23 am

LN2 ain't dry ice.

Dry ice sublimes at -78.5 °C, LN2 boils at −196 °C.

Callumgw · Post by **Callumgw** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:59 am

Kimmo wrote:LN2 ain't dry ice.

Dry ice sublimes at -78.5 °C, LN2 boils at −196 °C.

great.

ain't it about time we left this post to discussions of Dan's car?

C